Re: Sign The Petition

On 27 Mar 2007 02:54:45 -0700, "Mel Rowing"
<mel.rowing@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 26 Mar, 21:54, MM <kylix...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 26 Mar 2007 11:50:23 -0700, "Mel Rowing"

but our day will
surely come.

How so? You are in a minority! And you don't appear to vote for
anything. And proud of it!

Of course in the EP context we are already a majority.

Old buffers like us are one thing. If one looks at the 18-25 group
the trend towards non voting is even more pronounced.

I do not claim there is any organised campaign to persuade people not
to vote. I'm not aware of one at any rate. It is the spontaneity of
this trend that is the most remarkable aspect of it. People are
independently coming to an overall general disenchantment with
politics. Any politican that tries to lightly dismiss this as "apathy"
or "laziness" as I once heard one say, is playing a short term
dangerous game. There will be this element of course, always has been
and always will be.

However, we are coming dangerously close to the situation where more
people don't vote than do. That's what I mean when I say "our day will
surely come" When that day does come it will not be so much the case
that democracy is being denied or ignored (as I believe to be the case
now) as abandoned. Increasing numbers will no longer accept the
legitimacy of rulers.

As such a trend gathers momentum then ... who knows?

The present state of politics in this country dismissed
cynically as "apathy" is in reality bloody dangerous and on becoming
more so.

You don't really think that anyone cares, do you? Why don't you and
your weekend guests start a new party? Put your money where your mouth
is, so to speak. If you really feel that you have masses of support,
you shouldn't have much trouble drumming it up locally.

Why should we need a new party? It's the party system that is much of
the trouble. This absurd claim by each that they monopolise the
nation's wisdom and moral rectitude. A lot is said on here about
sheep. Political parties represent the nation's sheep pens. Members of
political parties do not influence party policy. Quite the reverse. I
have been a member of two of them.

No the level of disenchantment with and disengagement from the
political process is expressed every time the vote is counted. He who
dismisses it simply as lack of concern is making a grave mistake.

There are literally tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in
this country capable of governing it.

So why aren't they organising themselves if it's such a problem we
face?

I was talking of capability. If you think that our electees represent
the pinnicle of the country's intelectual elite then I feel sorry for
you and would point to Mr Prescott, Mr Skinner, Mr Campbell, Mr
Kennedy, Mr Redwood, Mr Cameron (God help us) to name but two from
each party. If they can manage it anybody can! That's the quality of
talent that comes through the party system.

You have to realise that time is a very slow process. I planted a
couple of shrubs two weeks ago. Every two or three days I inspect the
shoots. They are coming, but it's an incredibly slow process. Changing
things in Britain is like turning around an oil tanker or watching
shoots grow. It takes forever. But every journey starts with a single
step. I think your problem is similar to mine in a way, in that
neither of us is a spring chicken any longer and we (and many others)
are becoming frustrated that we will not see any significant change in
the lifetime we have remaining. Therefore, the young must somehow be
animated to grab the baton. They can run faster.

Quite the reverse actually. I am absolutely astounded by the speed of
change within the realtive over the relatively short span of my
lifetime. I am amazed at the speed with which the traditional marriage
and family has been politically marginalised. I am amazed at the
increased acceptance of illigitimacy of birth particularly where it
involves people so young. I am amazed at the increase in tolerance
towards drunkeness.which seems increasingly to be becoming the norm
against which to evaluate a night out. I am amazed to see so many of
our town centres becoming not nice places to be on weekend nights. I
am amazed at the loss of a sense of community in so many places. Fall
down on the pavement these days and people step over you. I am amazed
at our increasing toleration and acceptance of low level crime,
delinquent or naughty children, diminished levels of public order.

Need I go on?

I think your oil tanker metaphor is more applicable to the reversal of
these undesirable trends or is it just me?

I'd like all of those trends reversed as well, but it is not going to
happen under the current system, because too many people are too
apathetic to care. This - what you describe - is a slowly festering
boil that will eventually need the whole arm coming off if it is not
lanced. However, I reckon the pus has quite a considerable way to
fester until the great British public wake up. The present trends
would not be tolerated in most other EU countries, but then, those
countries would not have allowed the boil to fester so long.

You have two choices (given that the current two-party system is
completely broken and most are alienated from it): either start a
revolution, or form a party and garner support to make that party
grow.

There is one more solution: Deliberately urge everyone you know to
vote for the BNP as a protest vote. If the BNP succeed in forming a
government, now THAT will concentrate minds a bit! Internationally,
too.

Finally, note that nothing that is wrong with Britain has ANYthing to
do with whether we are in the EU or not. The quality of life in the
rest of the EU (the major states) is far superior to ours. Our
situation is unique among the other nations. We therefore have to look
much closer to home for the causes than Brussels. It's too darned easy
to blame everything on Brussels when all our problems you outlined
have developed only in this country: Drunk kids, teenage pregancies,
casual, violent crime on the streets, marriage breakdown, loss of
community. Then there's the ones you omitted: rich-poor divide,
increasing poverty (announced today), loss of civil liberties, low
productivity, poor educational achievements, worst country for
children to grow up in, shambolic public transport system, traffic
chaos, lottery number salaries for top bosses, the BBC.

MM
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Wonder If the USA Will Have Elections This Year That Deal With Important Issues -- Not j
    ... GOP's vote GOP and Dems vote Dem. ... interested in politics, nor are they as well informed on the issues or ... rationality to the process -- a crooked and corrupt rationality, ... "Your party is the party of Democraps" "No, ...
    (alt.politics)
  • Re: Hillary Underrates Women
    ... were I legally allowed to vote in the US. ... And, as we all know, a week is an eternity in politics. ... How Democratic Party of them, ... who cannot win the nation. ...
    (soc.men)
  • Re: Sign The Petition
    ... And you don't appear to vote for ... politics. ... cynically as "apathy" is in reality bloody dangerous and on becoming ... Why should we need a new party? ...
    (uk.politics.misc)
  • Re: Whats going on down there??
    ... the most urban county and began screaming "Vote Fraud! ... state party that counting resumed. ... contest vs. Obama I haven't ruled it out- not by a long ways. ... "politics as usual." ...
    (rec.boats)
  • Re: Such a Feminist Pussy (was: Fight for Mel Gibsons fortune)
    ... She's never argued against the women's vote. ... should translate into politics. ... Conservatives should drop their pro-life ... Sarah Palin is trash. ...
    (soc.men)