Re: Impeach Blair over Iraq: UK general

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:31:44 +0100, abelard <abelard2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...

[snip]

>it was the break down of the rule of law under h***** that was the
> last straw for me....

I think you place too much emphasis on him. Any govt can operate
within the law simply by passing new laws, and with a compliant
parliament it does just that as we see under Blair.

What is noteworthy is the 'two steps forward and one step back'
pattern, meaning that the noose gets tightened but not always at
the pace favoured by those in power...but it still happens.

Compare the slow-tightening over the last 25 years. Few notice.

>but i also had personal experience of arbitrary illegal actions....
> the rule of prejudice in place of any rule of law...
>retrospective so-called 'laws'....
>
>this breakdown of genuine law is manifest in the rise of national
> socialism
>
>>>>But don't fool yourself. If anything resembling a police state was
>>>>introduced in Britain, it would happen in Europe and America too.
>>>>The politicians sing from the same hymn sheet.
>>>
>>>i am not convinced of that by any means....
>>
>>Hmmm.
>
>all i said was i am not convinced...
>i take more account of culture than perhaps is usual....
>also southern europe is catholic by culture...not prod....
>
>>Regarding the EU, there are worrying signs -- e.g. the recent vote to
>>require communications data to be stored for upto 2 years and made
>>available to law enforcement authorities for trawling, the EU arrest
>>warrant, the Schengen Information System, the EU copyright directive,
>>the ID cards that exist in most EU countries, the recent decision of
>>the Netherlands to mandate that ID be carried at all times when out in
>>public, etc.
>
>see above....
>i don't know if this is factual yet...from a papal source
>". In fact, this year, well, last year, actually. 2005, there were more
>Muslims born in France than people of traditional French background.
>Within four years, the top four cities in Holland will be...most populous
>cities, will have a Muslim majority."
>
>>Sure, Britain has gone much further down the road to a police state
>>than the rest of the EU, but ISTM the EU is taking steps down this
>>road too. Mind you ISTM those steps would be quicker and larger had
>>the constitution gone ahead.
>
>and it was rejected despite all the power of the state machine behind it..
>
>>As for the US, there have been various attacks on civil liberties
>>there too. However the difference has been that there is a fightback
>>that can actually draw blood, via the constitution.
>
>exactly....

I don't think so. The US constitution has been trampled on for decades
and although it continues to provide some protection, it's a shadow of
its former self: Bush illegal wire-tapping under his fake so-called
'never ending war on terror', Gitmo etc, arrest and detention with
little or no evidence, huge corruption scandals etc. Nixon II.

Remember also it's the US who are driving the bio-passport system
but hiding behind the facade of an Intl body.

There are some differences between the US and European models being
followed (the US is more corporate, Europe is more statist) but not
too significant to an ordinary citizen when looking at the end result.

>>>france appears to be moving in the reverse direction
>>
>>Examples?
>
>much more devolution...loosening up some regulations....right to
> silence fairly recently in place (as i understand it)....a variety of
> civil contracts now available in place of 'marriage'...

The latter also recently introduced in Britain.
Some argue this makes them more FREE.

>but the culture is also much more anarchic and sceptical of pols...

I'd agree with that. Brits always prefer strong dictatorial leaders.
That's why Thatcher got in and it's why Blair stays in.
Britain is well stocked with little Hitlers, always has been.

>i also have rights here recently taken away by bliar (which i will not
> print here)...
>civil action is a normal reaction to gov't 'overstepping'
>on top of that the people are *far less* aggressive on the streets
> (although i'm not so sure of the ghettoes)....even the customers
> greet you when you walk into smaller shops....

Britain chooses to follow America, France doesn't.

>>> and america
>>> has a considerable and functioning constitution....
>>>meanwhile i have other gates ajar....
>>>
>>>it is very difficult to keep up with all the data, there are many
>>> 'sub-vocal' complaints emanating from italy....
>>
>>?
>
>see other attempt at other post here
>
>>>>One needs to get away from the EU and US to be safe.
>>>>My choice is obvious.
>>>
>>>socialist heaven.....
>>
>>Where?
>
>he must out himself :-) i won't

hhmmm.

>>>>>the more he tries to hang on to power the worse for socialism
>>>>> in the uk...
>>>>
>>>>It remains to be seen how much of his authoritarianism will continue
>>>>after his eventual exit. His laws are there and nobody's promising to
>>>>repeal or override them by other means...
>>>
>>>he is taking holidays on the continent and has installed favourites
>>> on the eu gravy train....
>>
>>I'm not sure of the relevance of this comment to hummingbird's
>>statements here.
>
>i will make a wild guess that he has no intention of living with the mess
> he has helped to create...

That's possible but in Europe he may be looking over his shoulder
every day. I'd guess he would prefer to go where so many ex-despots
and dictators have gone before to live out retirement.

>>The question is whether the authoritarianism will remain after Blair
>>goes. ISTM under New Labour it will.
>
>agreed on both
>
>>Under the Tories, I'm not yet convinced it won't, but that relates to
>>the £64,000 question of whether Cameron means it when he says he'll
>>stand up for civil liberties...
>
>indeed...
>
>>As for the Lib Dems, who knows what will happen with them?
>
>sommat nasty and painful if they get what they richly deserve
>
>>I've yet to see anyone promise to reverse any of the attacks on civil
>>liberties Blair has enacted.
>
>indeed...
>i just listened to a radio prog...the end result was 2:1 that all baybees
> should be dna'd at birth...and the idiots who voted had to pay 10p a
> vote...
>the problem goes well beyond government...as above...i look also at
> culture...another bunch of mindless sheep just as germany in the
> 30s...

"It couldn't happen here" is what they cry.

--
"It [Blair's government] has exploited the mood of insecurity
to push through a law protecting itself from public protest."
How freedom of speech is being curtailed in Britain under Blair:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-1937539,00.html
.

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