Re: Elton John "married"

Steve Cooper wrote:
> onlyme wrote:
> > The biological 'urge' to mate is the strongest instinct in ALL
> > species....not just higher primates!
> > In the absence of a suitable mate of the opposite gender, the urge will
> > drive strange behaviour in most species. Consider prisons, the navy (of
> > old!)...etc etc.
> >
>
> Actually there are good evolutionary theories for the higher primates
> and other species to have evolved gay (male) homosexuality.

Theories remain just that until they are given credibility by evidence.

The problem with this particular gene, if it exists, is that it
suppresses the very means of its propagation and as such is doomed
right from its initial creation.

> Most apes (humans, chimps etc) live in community where only one or
> two of the males in each generation will ever get to procreate. So
> the majority of males will never pass on their own genes. However
> as far as mother nature is concerned the genes of their sisters are
> very close to their own genes and its thought that having some
> strong males not for ever competing for the females, but able to
> defend the family group is an evolutionary advantage.

Apes do in fact compete quite viciously to acquire and defend their
positions within the social hierarchy of the group. Dominant males are
often observed to "mount" less dominant males during such
confrontations. However, this must not be interpreted as homosexual
behaviour implying affection. Quite the opposite, it is to do with
dominance, with the humiliation of an opponent with putting him back in
his (inferior) social place.

Another problem is that those who promote such theories as the above
tend to see the behaviour of animals through human perceptions. There
is no guarantee that behaviour that you see in a sexual context is seen
as such by an animal or indeed in any context at all.

If you are to persist in the assertion that homosexuality is common in
nature and thus natural then there is some fundamental evidence that
you must seek.

Sexual behaviour between species varies.

With regard to territorial animals, can you provide any substantial
evidence of instances of animals defending territories against
individuals of the opposite gender whilst tolerating those of the same
gender?

With regard to animals that nest or build dens, can you again provide
any substantial evidence of animal individuals of the same gender
building a nest or den and defending it against all comers particularly
those of the opposite gender?

With regard to animals that from permanent pair bonds, can you provide
any substantial evidence of such bonds being made between animals of
the same gender?

You must be aware that here we are discussing homosexual relationships
that by implication, go further than some crafty todger stroking in a
toilet cubicle. We are talking of members of the same gender entering
into what amounts to a marital partnership.

I would strongly argue that you will find no such parallels in the
animal kingdom.

> There is no evidence that homosexuality is a choice, and every bit
> of evidence points to it being inate from birth, either due to the
> genes of the person making them that way, or to the genes of the
> mother making conditions in the womb preferencing the male children
> to be gay.

In fact around 99+% of human behaviour is learned which is why the
human animal uniquely spends near a massive 20% of its life in
childhood and why serious consequences are likely to ensue if this
process is severely disrupted. It also explains the rich diversity of
human cultures.

Virtually everything we do has been learned. Codes of Law all assume
this and individual responsibility still has a prominent place within
all culture systems.

Homosexuality or indeed heterosexuality, are not exceptions to this
general rule. There are some who follow neither path and prefer (note
the word) celibacy. Is this an innate tendency also?

> Therfore given that homsexuality is probably inate, just as is the
> colour of ones skin, or whether one is left or right handed etc.
> Discrimation based on sexuality is wrong as the only people with a
> choiced are those being intolerant, and the only ones who can be
> changed are the intolerant. So if anybody should be rounded up and
> put into mental institutions to have there thought processes
> corrected it is them.

This is what many would have us believe but as I have briefly tried to
point out, the evidence is very thin on the ground despite being
contrived.


Mel Rowing

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Elton John "married"
    ... > Theories remain just that until they are given credibility by evidence. ... >> two of the males in each generation will ever get to procreate. ... > tend to see the behaviour of animals through human perceptions. ... > individuals of the opposite gender whilst tolerating those of the same ...
    (uk.politics.misc)
  • Re: Elton John "married"
    ... >> Theories remain just that until they are given credibility by evidence. ... >>> two of the males in each generation will ever get to procreate. ... >> tend to see the behaviour of animals through human perceptions. ... >> individuals of the opposite gender whilst tolerating those of the same ...
    (uk.politics.misc)
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