Re: secret codes embedded in your printer output...

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:30:37 +0200, abelard <abelard2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...

>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:30:20 +0100, hummingbird
><XSJCLSIAEMCA@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

>>I can see no justifiable reason for a transparent society to be
>>introduced for ordinary citizens and we should not allow politicos to
>>do so. There is no more good reason today for the government to
>>know how I spend my money/where I go/what I do than 20 years ago.
>>What we are seeing is a deliberate attempt to use terrorism/security
>>to accelerate the Big Brother police state.
>
>i think your oblique approach is bereft.....

And I fear that yours is wasted effort because you underestimate
the forces against you and their gameplan.

>the data will just keep accumulating and it will be both linked and sold

I don't think it follows that the existence of data, as you put it,
means that we all have to roll over and submit to the transparent
society, (but that's not where I think we are heading anyway.)

The issue is not simply one of data being collected but its use/abuse
by governments and commercial enterprises for control or profit.

>just as you learned to live in cities.....you will have to learn to live
> with this....

I don't think is a good analogy. One is advancement, the other is
intrusion and potential state abuse or the collection of data for no
beneficial reason and without explicit citizenry permission.

>you will do that by controlling the ability of governments to hide...
> not by attempting to stop 'them' spying on you.....

I disagree. *Both* are necessary to retain some modicum of personal
privacy away from state surveillance. That IT makes it possible today
for the collection of ever more data about people should trigger
rigorous controls to limit collection and avoid misuse. Such controls
should be a fundamental part of any healthy democracy but as we
know they are conspicuously absent in Britain; whether this is
governmental negligence/incompetence or the intention is a matter
of opinion.

>the power of individuals to cause mayhem is such that some
> degree of surveillance will become essential
>the variation of means of causing mayhem will keep growing
> inexorably

That usually comes down to IT projects being designed properly and
with adequate security measures built-in. The current ID card project
is an example of poorly thought-through systems which has the aroma
of a costly security disaster in the making.

>>It's not actually a transparent society which is being introduced at
>>all; it's a Big Brother surveillance society where ordinary people are
>>being subjected to increasing amounts of legalised state spying and
>>interference in our private affairs, but those same politicos keep
>>their own lives a secret and take ever greater steps to prevent us
>>knowing what they're up to.
>
>so work on that....
>enforce foi.....
>post data....

IMV it's a lost cause thinking that pressure and negotiation can
change the direction that politicians are travelling. They now have
the taste of hi-tech control-freakery in their nostrils and will not
let go without a big struggle. As state power gathers momentum,
the voice of the people will become less and less noticed.

>look at the drug peddlar who recently tried to take over the tory party...

?

>ok...but you are now repeating yourself....
>try cutting more firmly.....it'll save my time!

It's because your own comments require the same responses!

>of course it will happen if you make it happen....
>you have a dangerously passive attitude......

No, I have a very realistic attitude. See above.
I am not prepared to spend more of my life arguing with politicians in
the debating chambers. I've heard all the debate and claptrap I want
to hear from them. I've moved on from the childhood dream.

>>It implies politicians becoming accountable
>>for their decisions and actions. They don't like that today any more
>>than they liked it 50 years ago. As you know well, Blair's FOI Act
>>was an insult to the promise he made before becoming bossman.
>>Why should the likes of him suddenly decide to open up the vaults?
>>It'll never happen whichever party is in office.
>
>you must force it....use your own local data....
>publish it.....

The forces of the state ranged against those who want change and
accountability on my scale are immense.

>society will only advance in a civilised direction if you make it

We agree on this ...except for the methods.
....

>any attempt at revolution will only change the pigs in the seats....
> meanwhile wasting blud....
>animal farm is the real world.

That's a valid point.
My preferred way is for the existing regime system to collapse through
lack of popular support: "The Antipathy Party". This could bring about
the necessary change without bloodshed. We're down to 22% support
for the current government, how much lower does it have to go?

--
"Turkey should join the EU 'because it is a European country'"
....Jack Straw 2nd October 2005 in Luxembourg.
BBC: "only 22% of citizens across Europe want Turkey to join the EU"
.