Re: Life on Mars ?



Blue wrote:
>
> Rafe Zetter wrote:
> >
> > Blue wrote:
> > >
> > > The long term goal for the people of earth
> > > is existence. Not withstanding innate evolutionary
> > > changes. Will most likely need fuel if we are
> > > unable to harness the sun's energy in any
> > > decent short term fashion.
> > >
> > > Mining Mars would be easier if we didn't have
> > > to constantly wear suits etc. So an atmosphere
> > > would seem the ideal solution.
> >
> > What *fuel* would we be mining on Mars (I really hope you're not
> > expecting to find oil)
>
> Why not. Do you know the planet never had life?

Well if it did then it probably only lasted for about 400 million years
at most.
Life on earth has been around for about 4 Billion years
Now considering that we will have used up all of Earths oil (99.99%
anyway) within a 150 year period, then Mars will have at most enough oil
to supply Earths needs (at current usage levels) for about a week.
Hardly worth bothering with given the *Enormous* cost of extraction.

>
> > > The problem here is the amount of oxygen
> > > in the atmosphere, and no highly toxic gases.
> >
> > There is very little oxygen in Mars's atmosphere, and why do you want
> > toxic gases ?
>
> The desired affect is oxygen minus the toxic gases,
> though I except that when oxygen appeared on earth
> it was toxic to life forms at that time.

Eh, Oxygen was/is produced by the plants and algea, it was never toxic
to animals.


>
> > > Now the planet could be oxygenated by plants
> > > giving off oxygen as a by-product to their
> > > breathing.
> >
> > What plants, Mars appears to be pretty lifeless.
>
> Yes, we have to put plants there of course.
> That's not to say that non oxygen dependent life
> forms can't be living there.
>
> > Allowing for the soil having enough
> > > positive nutrients they will need accessible water.
> >
> > Ah , your talking about terraforming, why didn't you say so.
>
> Because I don't post for people who are that high.
>
> > > Even if heating up the poles of Mars is possible.
> > > It took about 2 billion years for the earth's vegetation
> > > to expel the 21% of oxygen we have today.
> >
> > Oxygen isn't the problem, there is loads of the stuff on Mars, mostly
> > its in the form FeO2
>
> Pointless, as the first oxygen on earth went into the
> earth and not the atmosphere. The first oxygen on
> Mars would go into the soil.

Doh, Thats where it is now, IN THE SOIL in the form of oxides eg Iron
Oxide (Rust to you) which gives Mars its brownish/red colour.

In order to give Mars an atmosphere these oxides need to be broken down
and released as Oxygen.

>
> > The problem will most likely be in finding sufficient nitrogen (or other
> > inert gases).
>
> Oxygen tanks aren't full of Nitrogen.

what do Oxygen tanks have to do with it ?

Earth Atmosphere is 72% Nitrogen, 22% Oxygen, 4% Co2 thats off the top
of my head but is roughly correct.

Pure O2 can be breathed by humans provided the pressure is below 5psi
(as in USA spacecraft)

> > > Allowing for the breathing rate being slower on Mars,
> > > with it's further distance from the sun. The question
> > > must be, is there simply enough water on Mars for
> > > vegetation to convert into oxygen?
> >
> > Irrelavent, there is a lot more Oxygen in the regolith than the water,
> > that can be released by plants (most ikely lichens and algea) also this
> > could be released by industrial methods.
>
> Again, Oxygen will go everywhere before there's an
> excess in the atmosphere.

Oh dear , your just not getting this are you.
The Oxygen on Mars is currenlty locked into the ground as oxides and
some in the form of water ice, also a little already in the atmospher in
the form CO2.
As the water is needed for other things (crop irrigation/industrial
proccess's etc) then the only viable source of Oxygen to form an
atmosphere is that which is in the soil. This can be released in a
number of ways, both biochemical and industrial.

To create an atmosphere on Mars it is important to first establish what
kind of atmosphere we want, there are two basic models.

1) A low pressure CO2 rich atmosphere would be fine for plant growth and
agriculture, but would require humans to wear breathing apparatus
'outdoors'.

2) A full-on Earth type atmosphere suitable for both plants and humans,
this would require outputing *vast* amounts of Nitrogen which has not
yet been found on Mars and probably only exists in small quantity as
various nitrates. Also A huge amount of oxygen, and some CO2.
On top of that we also need Ozone to block Solar UV.

As option 2 would take us a Very long time (if possible) and as both
atmosphere types obviously cannot co-exist then I would go for Option 1
and put up with having to wear an oxygen mask.


#
>
> > >There having to
> > > be enough water for a couple of billion years, or more.
> >
> > Thetime scale is Irrelavent the water does not need *to last* any
> > lenghth of time as it is recyclable.
>
> Unless after water splitting, hydrogen floats off into space.

As explained above we would be unlikely to split water for the purposes
of atmosphere generation, partly because we need the water, and partly
because there are other easier sources of oxygen.

Any Hydrogen in the atmosphere would be unneeded and welcome to escape,
some oxygen would also escape but could easily be replenished by plant
activity.

>
> > I think you have very little understanding of this subject, try reading
> > 'The case for Mars' by Robert Zubrin for starters (if you do then please
> > purchase it from http://www.marssociety.org.uk )
>
> Seeing as I'm not an affiliate of that organization
> I already know they don't know enough.

Of course they/we don't know enough, thats why they are raising money
and campaigning for more research and exploration you dimwit.

RaZe.
.

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