Re: Lib Dem Defections

Matthew Huntbach wrote
> usenet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote
> > Matthew Huntbach wrote
> >> The main right-wing bias that concerned me was the way the press
> >> were always talking up Oaten and his fellow Orange book people as
> >> "modernisers" and the bright future of the party, while writing off
> >> Hughes as someone who would automatically lose the party support if he
> >> became leader due to being "too left-wing".
> >
> > I remain unconvinced. You have your political beliefs, Matthew. You
> > then seem to be ultra-sensitive to anything in the press that disagrees
> > with you and to label such as "right-wing bias". The press, I suggest,
> > reflects the breadth of views in the party and in the population in
> > general. As you are on the "left" (although I'm not certain left/right
> > is quite the right way to describe it), you see that as "right-wing
> > bias". Lots of people, within and outwith the party, really do
> > genuinely think the Orange Book "modernisers" *are* (an important part
> > of) the bright future of the party and do think Hughes will lose the
> > party support. (Hughes is definitely bottom of my preferential vote.)
>
> I suggest that you are the one with the bias, who cannot see bias in
> reporting when that bias happens to favour your point of view.

I can see all sorts of reporting that doesn't accord with my views. I
can see all sorts of reporting that is biased. What I don't see is a
consistent, overwhelming right-wing bias: I see some right-wing biased
reporting and I see some left-wing biased reporting.

> I'm not asking for the news to be reported in a way that favours my point
> of view, I'm asking it to be reported in a way that is neutral.

A post-modernist would argue that a neutral position is impossible! Not
fully embracing post-modernism, I would agree with you that we should
have news reporting that tries to be objective. However, much of what
is in the press is explicitly comment and I've no problem with comment
being biased if we get a range of comment from all different political
shades. On the whole, I think the British media does manage all that.
At least, it's much better than the US media!

> The word "moderniser" is not a neutral word. It is a praise-word.
> To use it is to suggest that those it is applied to are praiseworthy,
> while those it is not applied to are defective. Therefore truly neutral
> news would not apply this term to either side. If the news were biased
> to my viewpoint (which I am not asking it to be), the term "moderniser"
> would be applied to those in the party who are trying it get it to
> pay more attention to the most urgent growing problems in our society -
> environmental degradation and growing inequality of wealth, while those
> wishing to turn the party more into an economic liberal party would be
> described as "regressives" since they are trying to turn back to the politics
> of the 1980s if not the 19th century.

I agree that the word "moderniser" is not a neutral word. However, it
is the word that is used about the Orange Book group outside of the
press -- it is not a press invention. Sometimes we have to accept the
labels that are used even if they're not accurate. The Democratic
People's Republic of Korea isn't democratic. The YBAs are no longer
young, but we still call them that. Progressive rock mostly stopped
progressing in 1979, but it's still called that. Celebrity Big Brother
doesn't have any celebrities in it. Margaret Thatcher was more about
changing things than conserving them, but she was still called a
Conservative.

On the whole, the reporting I've seen has been careful about using the
term "moderniser", often attaching caveats to it, and has presented
both sides of the debate within the party. Take the Newsnight report
last night that discussed both traditions within liberalism.

> Lots of people may think the Orange Book people are the "bright future"
> of the party and Hughes will lose it support, but are they so many that
> this can be reported, as it has been, as "news" rather than "opinion"?

I've not seen -- and you've not supplied -- examples where it has been
reported as news rather than opinion. I have seen it reported as
opinion. I have seen editorials and comment pieces lauding the Orange
Book people (Laws mainly), but I've seen others praising other LibDem
politicians/policies.

> Are the vast majority of the people, both members of the party and
> the general public of this opinion? An opinion poll published in
> the Guardian yesterday suggested the opposite - that Hughes was the
> most favoured of the leadership candidate, both amongst party members
> and amongst the general public. [...]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the poll gave numbers among the
general public and among party *supporters*, not members.

> > You seem to be justifying one misperception of the press by using
> > another misperception of the press. Maybe you're the one who fits
> > everything into the story you want to tell.
>
> You're happy because the press is in accord with your bias, and you lack
> the true sense of liberalism which would enable you to see that it is bias even
> though it's a bias you like.

The press is not in accord with my biases. The press has underrated
Chris Huhne, for whom I'm thinking of voting. The press obviously
grossly underestimates the party as a whole. There are many issues
which I think are poorly reported, although out of stupidity rather
than malice I believe. There's a recent BBC complaints report where you
can see that they grudgingly had to uphold a complaint I made about
their sloppy reporting of organic farming!

> > Evidence of bias requires a systematic analysis of *all* press
> > coverage, not simply moaning about every article that you disagree with.
>
> Can you report even one article which balances the bias I've pointed out
> with a contrasting bias whcih fits in more with my opinion?

I gave you two examples -- The Times talking about defections to Labour
and the News of the World destorying Oaten -- but you ignored the first
and dismissed the second. You say any paper would report a scandal
involving a male CSW, but subsequent newspaper calls for Oaten to
resign as an MP go beyond reporting the scandal.
--
Henry

.

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