Re: New Lib Dem leader is an Atheist

On Jan 3, 10:15 am, Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfi...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On 2008-01-02, Peter H.M.Brooks <pe...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On economic grounds it seems to be. From Greek and Roman experience, and
evidence in, for example, the Golden Bough, it seems that one of the
problems with pantheism is the need to placate so many gods - leave the
wrong one out and you're in trouble. Cut it down to just the one god and
you've only got one set of sacrifices, offerings, incantations and so
forth to make.

That's polytheism, though the big pantheist religion I can think of
looks polytheistic. In fact both I can think of thinking a little more.

Pantheism sees the world itself as divine, which is why I was wondering
whether I was getting it mixed up with monism, or even whether atheist
reduction was getting in. You can wander over towards animism if you're
not careful too. I have no experience of animism. They all seem to lack
the personal external god that monotheism has, though it's easy for
someone at least surrounded by our culture to start personalising even
an impersonal god.

You're right, I see pantheism as simply one version of polythiesm.
Since pantheism is named after Pan you can see that the
personification is part of its essence. The sun god, moon god, river
gods, and so forth are all personifications of nature worship.

If you can see the world as divine in itself then you can reduce it to
just a nice way of saying how awesome things are - the word awe chosen
specifically.

Well, yes, you could say that that non-personified naturalistic view
of pantheism is the sort Einstein was talking about when he used the
term 'god'.

Prayer becomes an interesting question. If you reduce the divine to
the beauty of the world you live in then it doesn't make sense to pray
to it. Sacrifice and ritual can have their purposes but those purposes
are entirely within the realm of the people doing them. I've had a Hindu
priest tell me that no external god will help us, but strength must come
from within which is a result of spiritual practice. Interesting words
from a religion that on the face of it appears to have so many gods.

Most theologians agree that prayer is not mechanistic - that's what
magic is. Primitive people have generally believed that prayers are
simply incantations, and many religious types still do. Keith Thomas'
excellent book 'Religion and the decline of Magic' discusses the
differences in amusing detail - like the idea of giving hosts to sick
cows.

Sophisticated theologians see prayer as simply a form of meditation.

Is there a mental advantage to thinking of a "higher power"? Does
religious practice help people in various ways, and if so can it be
separated from the ways it hinders? People like the Scout Association
think so demanding that their members have some concept of higher power
even if that higher power is "Dharma" or "Right way of life and duty"
if you're a Buddhist or a certain kind of Hindu. If I were to join the
Scout Association I'd likely use the Dharmic version of the promise.

We've discussed this quite a bit here. Most recently it has seemed
that the nature of the person is what matters. If you're doubtful and
anxious about the unresolved nature of the world then you're less
likely to be happy. If you're content with how the world is, then
you're likely to be happy. This is independent of whether you see the
world including gods.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: A. Einstein: science, philosophy and religion.
    ... > Citation please? ... I cannot imagine a God rewarding and punishing the object of his ... I call this religion the ... can be called PANTHEISM. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: The Catholic Church is the Anti-Christ...
    ... They take Jesus for a complete idiot, and they've helped convince 1.1 billion Christians that god is intentionally evil. ... Jesus would NOT have revered the Christian god, ... Humans are part of the Universe, but the Universe as an Infinite ... Recovering Christian Pantheism as the Lost Gospel of Creation ...
    (talk.religion.pantheism)
  • Re: Richard Dawkins - the God Delusion - Chapter 1.1 - A Deeply Religious Non-Belie
    ... God isn't a metaphor, God is a reality and using the ... simplest hypothesis one that there is more to the universe than the ... comments about religion. ... pantheism neither requires nor precludes the ...
    (uk.religion.christian)
  • Re: pantheism - just more bullshit
    ... The king is dead, long live the ... Does it have a god as its figure head. ... There are different varieties of pantheism, ... Cliff, you really should come on over to the WPM page and read up ...
    (talk.religion.pantheism)
  • Re: New Lib Dem leader is an Atheist
    ... Cut it down to just the one god and ... Pantheism sees the world itself as divine, which is why I was wondering ... from a religion that on the face of it appears to have so many gods. ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)
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