Re: On Determinism


alex....@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Dave Smith wrote:
alex.j.k@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

Regarding the "control of the mental event" part, that' a loaded
question -- "control" is just one part of free-will as I see it; the
other part is spontaneity. Control is exercised by circuits in the
brain that might also do their job in a deterministic world -- it is
spontaneity in one's actions that is caused by randomness.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'randomness' here - it may simply be
circular, anything you believe to be 'spontaneous' you describe as
'random', which would be fine.

If it isn't, then there is a simple question. Some people are known to
be 'more spontaneous' than others [other people seek to be 'more
spontaneous' but that is another matter]. If you accept this is the
case, then it would seem that it is more part of personality than
'random'. Or do some personalities have more access to 'randomness'
than others? If they do, what do you think the mechanism might be by
which they access this 'randomness'?

If this isn't the case, then why are people deluded into thinking that
some people are not spontaneous? It would seem strange, if everybody
had their actions caused by 'randomness' from time to time, for us not
to be familiar with everybody exhibiting effects of this pretty evenly.
We'd see somebody jump of a bridge, go on an alcoholic bender or
emmigrate to China on an apparent whim and simply remark - 'Ah,
randomness', and think little more of the matter. I think, further,
that we wouldn't think of some people as 'mad' or 'eccentric', just as
people who had had a bit of a rash of 'randomness' recently. Similarly
anybody arrested on any charge could get off by appeal to a bit of
'randomness' appearing that led him to 'spontaneously' dismember his
wife. After all, if 'spontaneity' is just 'randomness' then nobody can
be applauded or blamed for its effects.

At least that seems a reasonable argument to me. I know that, in this
group recently, we've had it argued that nobody whose behaviour is
determined in any way can be held responsible for it, but I find that
much more difficult to see as reasonable.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: On Determinism
    ... Or do some personalities have more access to 'randomness' ... Spontaneity as used in natural language, ... Regarding moral responsibility, as I've argued in another post, I ... see the issue as somewhat orthogonal to the determinism vs. free-will ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)
  • Re: On Determinism
    ... Or do some personalities have more access to 'randomness' ... Spontaneity as used in natural language, ... It is surely a product of brain functions, ... see the issue as somewhat orthogonal to the determinism vs. free-will ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)
  • Re: On Determinism
    ... Regarding the "control of the mental event" part, ... spontaneity in one's actions that is caused by randomness. ... I don't think randomness or spontanuity is important to free-will as these ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)
  • Re: On Determinism
    ... Control is exercised by circuits in the ... brain that might also do their job in a deterministic world -- it is ... spontaneity in one's actions that is caused by randomness. ... I don't think randomness or spontanuity is important to free-will as these would seem to involve little or no will. ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)