Re: Assisted Dying


"Peter H.M. Brooks" <peter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote

> > That is often said adn I don't agree that it can be applied so readily.
> > Some may be btu I know people that commit suicide because they feel they
are
> > useless to their family. They think the world will be better off without
> > them. That isn't so selfish is it ?
> >
> I can't imagine many things much more selfish myself.

I've just shown how their concern is for others. How is that selfish ?

> > Why do people die so easily whenstabbed in the stomach ?

> Peritonitis.

Really ? I didnt' think that was a quick thing (?)

> > Why should I tell someone what I'm doing ? It's my life. If I rung up
> > friends and family and said I was going to top myself they'd try and
> > intervene. If I was intent on killing myself I wouldn't wish to put
barriers
> > in my way and I may not wish to endure a painful emotional scene.
> >
> > Would a note saying,"I've had enough !" suffice ?
> >
> No. It wouldn't. Don't underestimate emotion.

If someone is wantng to kill themselves because they are suffereing
emotional pain they are hardly going to want to endure an emotionally
painful process are they. We arent' talking about councilling drug addicts.
It's where someone is desperate to end their life. Sitting around and having
a family chat may seem a jolly idea but it is pretty unlikely IMHO.

> Maybe, if you left your wife, a note saying 'tough ***, it was crap'
> would seem to you appropriate. I would submit that that would be cruel,
> unfeeling, heartless and would prove you an utter ***. So would such a
> note.

I didn't suggest such a heartless note, just one that gave a reason for what
you were doing. Your version doesn't really do that. My point though was why
were you so concerned abotu the reason and whether you'd thought that the
reason may, as you suggest cause more damage than if their just gone and
topped themselves.
I think it's the case that most suicides don't leave notes behind.

> I don't see the relevance of this to the discussion. I'm not saying that
> as a rhetorical point, I really mean it. I don't understand why you
> mention it.

My friend was going to get married when they discovered the bride(to be)
had
> cancer. They decided to go ahead with the wedding but he didn't tell his
> mother because of how she might worry. The bride died about a couple of
> weeks after the marriage. Were they being selfish ?

You were saying that you thought informing relatives about a death and
having a cahnce to say goodbye was improtant. My scenario is similar except
there is no suicide. Why do you think it so different ? Why didn't you
answer the question ?

> > It is a solitary act. People die in their sleep without telling people
> > whether or not they are happy and if they ate something funny. Why
should a
> > suicide have to spilll his soul ?
> >
> Because we are human and we have a choice. If we die in our sleep,
> unexpectedly, then those of us left behind are bereft, but we understand
> that the dead person had no choice and forgive them. Actually it isn't
> that simple. My mother died of natural causes but it took my sister five
> years to forgive her for dying.

There you go then ! I would have thought it may be apparent with a suicide.


> >>I think it right, honourable, and decent, to decide, for good reasons,
> >>to die. I think it utterly wrong for laws to deny use this choice.
> >
> > They don't deny you the choice. They deny someone else carrying out your
> > wishes.
> >
> You've lost me there.

The law doesn't deny you the choice to kill yourself. It does deny someone
(else) the right of taking your life.

> > I don't see that peers should be necessary. It may be highly
impracticable.
> > What if you are in pain and they are waiting for the number 53 bus to
bring
> > Uncle Albert ?
> > I think in these days it would be easy enough to film any last statement
> > even the final act to prove no-one was murdered. It may be nice to have
a
> > final chat with folk but if someone is in as bad a state as to need
killing
> > it may be completely ridiculous even considering wheeling relatives in.
> >
> You seem to have a cruel and callous attitude to our life.

Funny, I dont' see it that way at all. I'm talking of practicalities. I
think some ideas being suggested are fanciful. What may be a good idea in
an ideal situation is one thing - then there's the real world !

> Why do you project this on this subject?

I don't think that I do. If you are in pain and you are suggesting
prolonging that experience for the benefit of the family it seems to me
cruel and callous to one wishing to die. When we are talking about ending
someone's life it is their suffering that is paramount. If you are truly
concerned about ending their suffering you don't piss around with a bunch of
councillors and such.

Steve M


.