Re: The self and multiple personality


Lance wrote:
> alex.j.k@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > Lance wrote:
> >
> >>Ruthless competition can lead to monopoly.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is nonsense -- there are situations where a monopoly can arise,
> > but the presence of competition is not among them.
>
>
> It seems to have happened again and again in the software and computer
> industry. Again and again we have seen the emergence of a single company
> that dominates the field. If it were not for government action these
> would all be monopolies...



But you have nothing but your gut feeling for backing this up.

Monopoly is one of those subjects that everyone believes he
understands, even when they can name neither the conditions for the
existence of monopoly nor any reasonable guidelines for diagnosing
monopoly.
In particular, having 99% of a market does not imply having a
monopoly -- and this ignores the difficulty of defining what this
"market" is, as most products have substitutes. Barriers to entry in
the industry are necessary for the existence of a monopoly, but they
are not sufficient and furthermore, what is a barrier to entry is more
often that not misunderstood. For instance, the need for exorbitant
initial capital for entering a market is not, by itself, a barrier to
entry in the sense relevant to diagnosing a monopoly; and neither is an
established reputation in the business.

And you have to name those "software and hardware monopolies." Other
than Microsoft, which is actually a borderline case, it is hard to name
them. In the case of Microsoft, even if the courts did think that it
has a monopoly, the governmental remedies did not provide any
particular boost for other operating systems, yet today they are close
to Windows even in convenience of use and operation -- as they were
better in performance before. This indicates that competition in this
field is both possible and likely.


> > One --imperfect-- example is the case of the frontier settlements in
> > the American West. It is imperfect, as the government existed, but it
> > was a government distant enough and virtually absent from day to day
> > life, that some conclusions about the organisation of society without
> > government can be drawn.
> >
> > There is actually a book on this theme, "The _Not_ so Wild, Wild
> > West" that debunks the myth of the violent nature of frontier life, and
> > describes some of the voluntary institutions that were formed to
> > provide functions that are usually provided by the government:
> >
> > http://www.perc.org/publications/books/wildwest.php
> >
> > Short of reading the book, you can read the article on the same theme
> > by the authors of the book:
> >
> > http://www.mises.org/journals/jls/3_1/3_1_2.pdf
> >
> >
>
> Hmm. Here you say you have a situation of no government even though
> there was one.


No. In fact, I specifically said that there was a government -- but
it was a government that was non-intrusive enough to make the study of
the time-space region relevant to how people can arrange their day to
day affairs without a government.

It is not an example relevant to how an ungoverned society can deal
with large scale attacks, like dealing with a possible invasion of
France or of Indians --as that was the domain of government-- but it is
relevant for understanding how people can deal with small time thieves
and killers, how to deal with legal disputes that can arise between
them, all this without the involvement of government. Did you even read
the paper that I linked to?

There are other examples relevant here. For instance, in 18th century
England had private prosecution of crime -- there were no officials
corresponding to either modern police or district attorneys.


> >
> >>In the Congo in Africa, there is no effective government. So far the
> >>number of deaths there since the collapse of the government and the
> >>civil war are about 4 million. It is the worst war since the second
> >>world war!
> >
> >
> > You must be joking to suggest that there is no government involved in
> > the killings. The government is very effective in killing those people
> > -- even the rebels are backed by other governments.
> >
>
> Some are. Some are just war lords.

The point is that what you are describing is a situation where there
are violent challenges to an _existing_ monopoly of force. You might
just as well attempt to judge democracy by the number of people killed
in the American Revolution.

There was violent civil war in Somalia too before they got rid of
government, and now the place is rather peaceful.

[...]

> What makes you think that people are only
> evil when they form part of a government? I know many honourable men who
> work for governments, and many crooks who work for themselves or for big
> businesses.
>

That has no relation whatsoever with anything I've claimed.


> >
> >>Parts of Liberia and Ivory Coast have no effective
> >>government.
> >
> >
> > Or in other words, the government is or was killing a lot of
> > inconvenient people and you decide that that is a good example of an
> > absence of government.
>
> Again, you decide there is a government when it suits you, and you
> declare the absence of a government when it suits you.

Nonsense. I've been consistent in calling a government a monopoly of
legitimate force in a region.

> >
> >
> > If you want a contemporary African case that approximates better the
> > lack of government --even if there are important differences from
> > anarcho-capitalism, plus obvious disadvantages in human and other
> > capital there-- your choice should have been Somalia.
> >
[...]
> >
> > http://tinylink.com/?sK2YNiv81y
> >

>
> Well there is very little in Somalia apart from poverty. It is divided
> up amongst war lords where there is any value to be had. After the
> recent tsunami (which destroyed the somali fishing fleet) it turned out
> that the fleet could not be replaced because there were no skilled men
> able to repair or rebuild the boats and nets in the country. Severe
> poverty can reduce rebeliousness against a government, and it can make
> people poor targets for criminal activity because they have nothing to
> steal.

On the other hand, you blamed poverty for a large crime rate. You had
a better argument then than you have now.

Secondly, it if false to say that there would be nothing for a
possible government to steal from the people in Somalia -- most
factions there do want to become governments, precisely because there
would be a lot of loot to be had. They just can't manage it, as they
realize that entering battles is more costly than simply entering
agreements.


> >
> > There was also a BBC poll that tried to get people actually living
> > in Somalia to describe the living conditions there. There were only
> > three commentaries from people actually living in Somalia. Two were
> > relatively positive and one was negative -- the negative comment waxed
> > poetically about the lack of order makes one an orphan, without any
> > specifics, and one positive comment mentioned that while he feels
> > internationally isolated, the place is rather peaceful.
> >
> > Not a survey from which to draw any conclusions obviously, but the
> > other positive comment deserves a quotation:
> >
> > "Yes - I have lived in a country without government since 1991, I have
> > a job, my children have schools and health and everything is okay,
> > everyone can live without government except politicians."
> > Ahmed Ahmed Abdalla, Bosaso, Somalia
>
> Well that seems like a load of bollocs to me - there is almost nothing
> in that country.
>

Well, he does have the slight advantage that he is living there while
you are just speculating.

Recently they've gathered enough of their "almost nothing" to launch
a satellite TV network. Perhaps once they provide coverage in other
languages than local dialects there will be fewer experts and more
information as to what actually happens there.

Cheers,
Alex

.

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