Re: I wonder if my dog loves me

Fergus wrote:
On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:49:04 +0100, Smith wrote:


I have never done this.
The point is, human motives and emotions are very similar to animal
motives and emotions. We are animals ourselves afer all, so that kinda
goes without saying.
But for the point of this argument, I will pretend that humans are
different in some way from the rest of animals. Now, emotions in my
dictionary states that they are any strong feelings. as of joy,sorrow or fear.

Ok, are they human emotions, or animal?

You must admit, if you are honest, that both humans and my dog for
instance share these emotions.


Hard to say. It's difficult enough to know the motivations and emotions of our fellow humans so when it comes to another species with much a more limited mind then it's probably impossible. Then anthropomorphism and projection fills in the gaps in our knowledge giving the illusion that we understand what our dogs are thinking. That's the pitfall as I see it.



So, am I attributing animal emotions to humans, or attributing human
emotions to animals. The answer is neither, because. these we share. In
fact I think we share them all. People who tell you that animals have no
sense of humour, are wrong, plain and simple.

I'd agree with that.

Have you never seen or
heard a crow laugh? My dog chases crows, and when she does, the crow
makes a strident pissed off cry, but later she (the crow) will buzz my
dog and can really make my dogs life a misery, and then her call is
different. Pure glee in her call. Watch it some day and see it. Really,
if you have not seen this then believe me, you are missing something. I
kept goats, I loved them, and they loved me.

And yet you started off by saying that there was no such thing. I agree with what you say here but not with what you said there.

[snip]


Motives.... when squirrels bury nuts, is there a motive in mind? Same
with dogs when they bury bones for later use. Is this not analogous to
humans opening a bank account and putting stuff away in times of plenty.
for future hard times?

Do squirrels know why they do what they do? I doubt it. It's down to instinct rather than intention.

Even insects....they lay food stores down for there future hatchlings,
No motive? I think so, but not the same as ours, granted.

Again I don't think it's intentional.

Someone once argued that a bird must be aware that an egg will hatch out because otherwise she wouldn't spend so much time sitting on it. More likely she sits on the egg because it gives her immediate pleasure which has been hard wired into the brain.


We ARE animals. How can we be more? We are mammals. We are apes

Dawkins to my mind is ok, but, he does go on a bit. I came to my beliefs
long before he was born, so don't go thinking he was the man who worked
it all out, and the rest of us followed. Take a good look at nature for
yourself, it just might tell you something.

I do. Maybe I'm missing stuff and maybe it tells me something different to what it is telling you but I certainly look and explore.


Because you can't see the payback, does not mean there is none. I prefer
'acts of kindness; 'to acts of love' How can you judge when there is no
chance of anything never mind payback. Dear me, I believe there is
little chance of a god, but I cannot and won't ever say there is no
chance of a god. Its just that I would have to be more convinced than
the evidence I see before me, before I believe it.

If you can't see the payback and you still do the action then the argument still stands. The payback isn't the motivation for the act of love/kindness.

I don't often reply to people, mainly because I can't be bothered, and
anyway they know much more than I do anyway. They have read it out of
books, my knowledge comes mainly from just watching things, and seeing
how things pan out.
you though seem logical, and although our beliefs differ, you think
about things, you are never nasty, and I feel I might have something to
learn by listening to your wisdom, in spite of the fact I think you have
some things wrong.


Thanks.


Fergus

Man, you are an absolute joy to read!
.

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