Re: Why?

On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 21:59 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote:
Fergus <fergus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rowland McDonnell wrote:
Fergus <fergus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rowland McDonnell wrote:

I can't think of a better explanation.

`In their nature' means nothing at all as far as I'm concerned. It's
in
human nature to breath, to eat, to ***, piss, sleep, and so on. I
don't buy the argument that nastiness can be `in someone's nature'.
Just doesn't make any sense to me.


The way I see it is that people have various propensities to different
things. Some people are biased to being generous hearted and some people
are biased to being bastards. That doesn't mean that, unlike leopards,
they cannot change but it takes effort and willingness to do so.

There is no reason for anything other than `because of everything that
has ever happened to affect the moment'.

I think it is more specific than that. Events are usually caused mainly
by things which have happened recently.

But I think that nasty people like persecuting vulnerable people and
they spot me as a vulnerable person and so home in on me to attack me
because they're sadists who enjoy that sort of thing.


Possibly but, as far as I can see, a lot of it is not because they see
you as vulnerable but because the see you as aggressive to others. They
are tempted to respond in kind and they unfortunately yield to that
temptation. Maybe you don't intend to come over as aggressive but the
fact that others see it that way is part of the reason that you get
targetted. I'm not saying that makes it right.


People like MadMazza, for example - she's a lot more evil than the
average troll here.


I don't think that's true.

In any event you'd save yourself the grief if you just killfiled her and
the trolls. Then you wouldn't notice whether she replied to the trolls
or not.

Hardly anyone's ever dared to be nasty to me to my face since I
left
school. I find just looking at people deals with most `social
***'
that's going on in my face. Of course, that just means they sneak
off
and do it behind my back...

Standard bully behaviour...

The bullies I knew at school didn't sneak about behind my back. They
punched me in the face.


ouch! I was spared that. I just got the sort of bullies who ridiculed
me.

Well, I have no intention of "putting all the blame on you". What
the
trolls do is completely unwarranted and amazingly juvenile. I don't
think I've seen that sort of behaviour since I was at school. They
clearly have no concept of what mental illness is.

I think they do. I think that they are sadistic scum.


Maybe I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I don't know any of them
apart from what they post here.

But it's not the usual trolls who are bothering me. It's Mad Mazza
who's the worse scumbag here - the nastiest poster I've seen in this
newsgroup for a very long time.


My advice would be to let it go. You aren't going to change her posting
style or who she posts to and you are giving yourself more pain.

Nevertheless, given the bad situation there are things which can be
done
which will limit the damage if you are prepared to do so.

Oh, stop pratting about and say what you have to say rather than
winding
me up, eh?


ok. I would suggest that you totally ignore the trolls, not just by
refraining from replying to them but by not even acknowledging their
existence in posts. Same goes for the people who irritate you by
replying to them. This auto-kill feature which I haven't come across
sounds an ideal tool for the job.

Also I would suggest that you try not to react aggressively to people
who try to help you because that is likely to alienate them. For
instance, in our last conversation you told me to "f*** off and die".
And, believe it or not, I was trying to help!

Actually, I would suggest not replying aggressively even to people who
are just out to hurt you because that will just escalate the situation.

Just my two penn'orth...

At the risk of provoking your wrath I would say that you often
interpret genuine attempts to help and to reach out as nastiness
when
it is not.

I really can't see what relevance that might have.

It's relevant in two ways. Firstly, people in general are probably
not
as nasty as it appears to you,

I don't think you're in a position to make judgements like that at
all.


I don't claim to be right or have definitive answers, just to have a
different, incomplete, viewpoint.

so there is more hope than there seems to
be.

Eh?


If people aren't as bad as you think maybe the future can be less bad
than you think.

Secondly, if you perceive that people are being nasty, when they are
not, and react accordingly then these people are quite likely to
either
react angrily back or simply withdraw, although there are notable
exceptions. The danger is that it becomes a self-fulfilling
prophecy.
The key is to try to break that cycle.

Experience has taught me that that line of reasoning is bull***.

There really are a lot of very nasty people in this world, and I've
stood back and watched them get away with being really really nasty so
that they can trample over other people and get what they want while
(in
a socio-economic way) putting others down (in the same way).

And people like you are one reason they can get away with it - the
people who insist on donning rose-tinted specs before trying to
analyse
what's going on, always insisting on taking a rosy view of things
rather
than looking at what's really up.

Okay, so my viewpoint is bitter and twisted and warped, I know that.
<shrug> I'm cracked.


There are definitely a lot of very nasty people in the world. I have no
rose-tinted illusions about that. But there are also a lot of kindly
people in the world. What I'm saying is that you sometimes mistake the
latter for the former and that can alienate or at least discourage the
good ones.


I've not always been very nice to you, and I've been harshly critical
of
you on occasion - sometimes, I expect I've been very unfair to you.
But
I recognise that you are at heart a very decent bloke - just with some
oddities round the edges. Does that make more sense?


Yes it does. I'm completely comfortable to admit that I have plenty of
oddities!


Fegrus


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