Re: Children - OT, sorry!

real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Rowland McDonnell) wrote in
news:1iqcwid.gbl1ado1i8lpN%real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Mandy <mandy2uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

nigel <useweb@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in news:gfh252$hdp$1@xxxxxxxx:

Mandy wrote:
[snip]
I think the test thing meant 11-13 not 9-11
though! :o)

H'mmm, thirteen qualifies as a fully fledged teen, doesn't it?

Only just! lol

13-18 years old - those six years are the teenaged years. It's not
`only just' teenaged when you're 13 - it's `exactly in the teenaged
range'.


What about 19 year olds?

I'd be interested to know more about the 'test' you mention (as a
writer, not a critic). Are there details on-line that I could look
at?

Hold on while I find the URL again...
http://www.bridgerlandliteracy.org/TutorTips/fog.HTML

That's a very crude measure of readability. It uses a mechanical
approach that looks at the size of sentences and size of words. What's
needed is a look at what the words are - are the words the sort of
words
that your audience can understand or not? - and what kind of
expressions
you use (ditto). That tool doesn't provide you with that.


Ah right!

It also seems to underestimate the reading ability of children - or at
least it does when I think back to what I read when I was a child, and
what my peers read at the same time.


Ah right!

Childrens' books when I was young usually had a suggested age range
printed on the back[1]. Everyone I knew read books that were `far too
old for them' according to adult judgement. My conclusion was that the
standard judgement of adults on what's suitable for what age of child
is
wrong.


By the sound of it that test is wrong too!

Apparently, my prose (the chunk I just tried) needs 15 years of formal
eduated to read it easily! - according to the Gunning Fog Index.


Blimey!

That means the index states that if you've only had school up to 16,
it's beyond you. It's not until you're in your second year of
university that you can expect to be able to read it, allegedly.


I don't know what you put in but not everyone goes to Uni (me and Steve
are 2 examples)

To which claim, I say `bollocks'.


Too right!

The other indices give different answers - varying from 8th grade (13-
14
years old according to the Coleman Liau index - about right, I reckon)
up to 13th grade (18-19 - university/college - bloody nonsense,
according to Flesh Kincaid and ARI).


It sounds like they need to find a better system!

Of the three sentences suggested for re-write, two were written with a
very plain structure and with sufficiently simple words to be easily
understood by someone of normal reading ability at the age of 12 or
more
- after, say, 7 years of formal education.


Too right!

The third was a bit convoluted and I wouldn't expect an average under-
12
kid to be entirely happy with it but I'd be horrified if a 14 year old
had more trouble with it than a normal adult - they'd class as
`semi-literate' in my book, if that were the case. But the sentence is
convoluted and could certainly be improved - except that I wanted it to
be convoluted to wind up the recipient.


It sounds like it could have worked?

Anyway, think about the words you use and the *way* you express
yourself. And don't worry too much about the judgement of a machine in
this case.


Okey dokes!

Never trust a Web page that talks about `math'.


Ah right... typically American?

Rowland.

[1] Which is why I can't understand the current flap over putting a
suggested age range on the back of books these days.

[2] <http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080301084811AAHw62d>

"Can someone explain the US grade system compared to England's school
years?"

Okay I'm from the US, and this is how it usually goes . . .although
there are some exceptions.

Preschool (Optional): 4-5

Elementary School:
Kindergarten: 5-6
1st Grade: 6-7
2nd Grade: 7-8
3rd Grade: 8-9
4th Grade: 9-10
5th Grade: 10-11

Middle School:
6th Grade: 11-12
7th Grade: 12-13
8th Grade: 13-14

High School:
9th Grade: 14-15
10th Grade: 15-16
11th Grade: 16-17
12th Grade: 17-18

When I say there are exceptions, I mean that some start preschool at
age
three, some kids skip grades and others get held back. But, all in all,
that's basically it.

* 8 months ago



So maybe what I've written so far *is* suitable for a 9 year old?

--
Stay Safe, Mandy
Money talks, chocolate sings
http://mandy2.bravehost.com/
.

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