Re: Just venting (totally OT)

Mandy <mandy2uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Rowland McDonnell) wrote:

Mandy <mandy2uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Rowland McDonnell) wrote:

Mandy <mandy2uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Rowland McDonnell) wrote:

Mandy <mandy2uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[snip]

Yet
you refuse to install SP2 which is leaving you wide open to
people exploiting your security and hacking into your
computer!

I don't use the XP machine any more... this one (with Vista) is
it's replacement! :o)

Not so bad - but still, if you've got Win XP, it really really
needs SP2 if it's ever going to be connected to the internet.

I'm just paranoid about it all screwing up the programmes I use
:o/

You should be more paranoid about hacker attack.

I guess...

You don't get more paranoid than me, I can tell you. On the other
hand, I don't take anything like the precautions I should and I've not
been bitten yet.

Me either!

On the other hand, I use Macs. There are very very few security
problems for Macs.

There is one bit of Mac malware going around in the wild at the moment.
It can't attack your computer: the only way it can get in is if you
manually download it and install it yourself.

And how do they persuade people to do that? Easy: `the bad guys' have
prepared a special movie file that says it's hard-core pornography and
you can download it for free. But when you get it, you find it won't
play unless you download and install a new codec from their Website
(huh? Just think `some extra software').

So people download this new codec in the sweaty expectation of naked
flesh and get a very nasty infection on their computer instead.

Never, never install software from a source that doesn't look legit, and
even if it does look legit, you still can't fully trust it.

But the above tale explains how modern hacker attacks work: they don't
always get in via security holes (there are fewer holes to exploit);
they get in by persuading the user to invite them in by using sneaky
tricks.

The problem is not that SP2'll screw up the programs you use, but
that some people have had trouble losing data with the upgrade.
There are workarounds, I can assure you.

Other than asking those who had problems with SP2, where would I find
out about them (the workarounds)?

Point me at the problems and I'll see what I can do.

IIRC Poser 7 and PSP 7 just refused to work and to get them to work again
you had to wipe your machine and start again!

If they had to `wipe and re-install' everything, they've made some
really huge mistakes somehow. *Really* huge - because I found the MS
instructions on `how to undo the SP2 update' without having to do that.

I've read the stuff on the Web and it seems that quite a lot of people
have installed XP SP2 on their machines and Poser 7 carried on working
without trouble. I didn't find out about PSP 7 for sure - but PaintShop
Pro 8 works with XP SP2 as far as I can tell. There's instructions on
MS's Web site that I pointed you at which explains how to persuade PSP 8
to install because there are issues with running its installer but
there's a MS-recommended workaround.

So whatever the troubles are, I need a link to someone reporting the
specific issues so I can track 'em down and find the specific fixes for
whatever specific problem that they've had because it doesn't look like
there's a general problem for most people with either Poser or PSP under
XP SP2. Not from what I found from searching the Web, anyway.

Clearly some people *have* had problems - but I'm more certain than ever
that it's perfectly straightforward to deal with them.

It's so vitally important to upgrade to SP2 for the sake of keeping
your computer working (if you use it on the internet), it's worth
putting a lot of time and effort finding out how to work around the
problems that have been reported.

I'm not promising anything but I'll consider it :o)

Look, don't `consider' it: either work with me to find the workarounds
and *then* think about it, or decide that you really really do not
want even to find out about the workarounds because you don't care
about having a secure computer.

Right now, I'm going for the not finding out about the workarounds option
'cos I don't have XP on this machine!

Well, if you don't use XP, you don't need to.

Be definite about your decision at this point. The decision about
upgrading or not should be left until you've got more info.

Yup, but I don't have XP on this machine and Vista installs all the
updates without asking you so I'm sorted :o)

Okay.

There is no workaround that'll save your computer from being
clobbered by hackers if you use a WinXP box connected to the
internet if it's not got SP2 on it. All it takes is one dodgy
Website, and you're totally screwed.

Even though the SP2 machine has a firewall?

The Windoze firewall provides you with no protection at all from what
I've been told. This is not because there is anything wrong with it,
but because the job of `firewall protection against internet attack'
is done by your router. The Windoze (or Mac, in the case of what I've
got here) firewall gets to do nothing as far as I'm aware - it's
redundant, not useful if you're connecting using a router. You and me
are both using routers, yes? Oh, leave your firewall on - I might
have missed a trick or two, but I've been told by people who claim to
know that it doesn't actually have anything to do if you're connecting
using a router.

It's not the Windows firewall... it's a free one! :o)

<shrug> Either way, it's not very useful given that your machines are
behind a router. As far as I can tell, a firewall on your PC is no use
at all if you're connecting to the internet with a router unless there's
a security flaw in your router.

Don't get me wrong: I use a firewall on all my Macs and I'm not going to
stop. And you carry on using a firewall on your PCs. But it's not
useful `except in strange circumstances'.

The main protection you need is keeping your software up to date.
That's how the hackers get in these days - they get in by persuading
your computer to run software that you download (often without realising
you're doing it, via a dodgy Website or via spam email), and they take
over your PC without you knowing about it, and then you're in trouble.

With the modern ways of doing things, the hackers can install sneaky
software so deep inside the OS that it can scupper any virus scanner's
attempt to find it.

But! MS Windoze Vista has spanking new protection built in to stop
exactly that sort of thing and it's actually really rather secure.

But! You do have to keep up with the latest software updates because the
hackers are always looking for a new crack in the defences to sneak in
by.

[snip]

And the firewall proection you get doesn't help at all in the case of
a dodgy Website. It stops hackers forcing their way in, but the
hackers don't often bother trying to do that these days because almost
everyone's behind a router and so impossible to attack the
old-fashioned direct way.

I'm still paranoid about it though!

Of course - but you're not paranoid about some of the things you need to
be paranoid about, and that worries me a bit.

[snip]

Now, there are security measures in place to protect you against
malicious stuff, but the malicious people have ways round all the
security I've ever heard of - short of switching off the ability of
your Web browser to execute Javascript. Switch off Javascript, and a
huge pile of possible problems are avoided completely.

I think that's what I've done 'cos the javascript that is on pages I go
to all comes up as a dark grey box with a warning pop-up that let's me
decide whether I want to run the javascript or not!

Well, that's not the same as `off', but very very useful if you use the
ability sensibly.

You are massively less vulnerable to that sort of thing if you use
up-to-date software. And don't ever use MS IE because it's the most
vulnerable Web browser going - all the others are more secure than MS
IE. I've heard from a technical news Website that interviewed a
hacker that what *he* uses for Web browsing is Opera with Javascript
switched off. As far as he's concerned, everything else is too
insecure.

I'm pretty sure I've got javascript turned off or set to ask me or
something like that!

It's set to ask you - a good idea. Make sure you say `no' any time
you're in any doubt, mind.

SP2 deals with that risk almost completely. Without SP2, WinXP is
wide open to hackers. With SP2, it's very nearly secure enough for
*my* liking. And I'm fussy.

I'll consider it but I'm making no promises :o)

You mustn't do it unless you know how to deal with the problems you've
heard about - but it's daft not to at least look for workarounds if
you ask me. Assuming - as I think will turn out to be the case - that
the workarounds are out there, *then* it's worth going ahead with it.
But since you've read about problems, you'd better check that you know
what causes them and how to avoid them.

Oh I know how to deal with the problems... do as many backups as you can
then wipe the machine and start again!

That doesn't always work: some infections can remain even if you
reformat the entire hard disc drive. The type of infection that can
survive wiping the entire machine is called a boot sector virus. It
infects a deep, deep part of your hard disc drive which doesn't
necessarily get wiped when you reformat.

The process you described didn't work back in the 1980s because of these
damned boot sector viruses, but PC makers introduced hardware security
features on PC motherboards to stop boot sector virus infections. The
boot sector viruses went away because the hardware protection worked.
So PC makers stopped including this hardware protection. And so boot
sector viruses have come back.

There is no limit to human stupidity.

Anyway, your description of what do to is okay as far as it goes, but
wouldn't it be good to not have to wipe and re-install everything?

Rowland.

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