Re: Just venting (totally OT)

real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Rowland McDonnell) wrote in
news:1ibdnid.1tv22o7vuatmvN%real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Mandy <mandy2uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Rowland McDonnell) wrote:

Mandy <mandy2uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Rowland McDonnell) wrote:

Mandy <mandy2uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

lying_***@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

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Mandy <mandy...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I've just found some resellers that sell Macs around here so
I'll see if I can persuade Steve to take me to each of them
so that I can have a look! :o)

I strongly recommend you find a friend who already has a Mac
and make sure it will run everything you need before you buy
one.

I don't have any RL friends... only online ones!

Online is all you need - but remember, since you can run Windoze
on a Mac, everything you've got now will work on a Mac.

I don't know if I can afford to buy Windoze though! :o(

Well, that's fair enough - and if you're not getting rid of your
Windoze computers, you won't *need* it.

Okey dokes!

<grin of an unrepentant geek> Yeah, but it's just so flash to see two
operating systems on the one machine... ;-)


It might be flash but it would overload my poorly brain! :o(

But you've said what applications you use all the time - Poser
is available in a Mac version (both Mac and Windoze versions of
Poser are the same, at version 7), and while MS FrontPage is
discontinued by MS, there are much better Web page creation
tools around.

I doubt I'd be making pages on the Mac... not straight away anyway
:o)

Do ask on uk.comp.sys.mac about Web page creation software. I
gather that there's good stuff available, and you'll probably like
the experience once you've learnt how to use the software.


*nodding* I just want to get used to how to use the Mac first
y'know?

Oh yes, but how can you get used to using the Mac unless you, you
know, *use* it?

Just playing with it's no good at all - that'd be wasting your money.


I want to know how to turn it on and off first of all! lol

So: if you want to run Poser 7 on a Mac, the thing to do would
be to enquire about with the firm about a cheap `side-grade' so
you can go from Poser 7 on Windoze to Poser 7 on Mac without
paying full whack (not all firms do this, but some do).

I've just emailed them about it :o)

Any joy?

Defo! They said I could side grade (is that the right term?)

Yep!

it when I
get the Mac so that I can use it on both this machine and the Mac but
I won't be able to use the serial number for anything else - upgrades
and stuff - but I'm not too fussed about that :o)

Righto - coo. Good stuff. Hey, I gave someone some good advice! It
worked :-)


You did indeed!

MS FrontPage - well, you should get something better even if you
stick with Windoze. But aside from that: ask on
uk.comp.sys.mac, explain that you use FrontPage now, and I'd bet
that you'll get lots of good suggestions on what'd be a better
replacement for you to use (they can probably advise you on a
replacement for FrontPage under MS Windoze too). For sure there
will be a period of learning, but whatever you get, it'll be
better than MS FrontPage. Remember, MS FrontPage was dropped by
MS some time ago, and it's always been the crappiest big name
Web page creation software out there.


Yup! I'm not going to build webpages on the Mac though so that's
no problem :o)

Mmm... But if you don't use it for the things you use computers
for, why buy the thing in the first place? No point spending money
on tool that's not used, is there? Thing before spending, yes?

I just want to get used to it first then if we (me and the Mac)
become friends I'll get a top notch Mac laptop and install all the
Mac software on it then :o)

That'd be a bit daft, really. You don't need a top-notch Mac laptop -
and the top-notch ones are very uncheap. The one you buy ought to be
perfectly up to doing everything you need. Seriously. Deadly
seriously - don't think of buying two Macs, really. Just the one.


Maybe I'd better wait until I've saved up a bit more money then?

And you'll not figure out how to use it, how to be friends with it,
unless you put on it the software you want to use and try using it.


*nodding*

Honest. Remember that installing software on a Mac is not like it is
on a Windoze machine. It's usually an utterly trivial job and - in
the case of almost all Mac software - *CANNOT* not cause any problems
at all.


Cool!

Seriously, if you are going to `go Mac', your best bet is to get one
Mac and stick with that one Mac. Install on it the software you want
to use straight away, and play around with the things you want to use
on the Mac. Do a few jobs you want doing on it, that sort of thing.

The biggest problem with that is that I can't use PSP on it though :o(

That's how to `get to be friends with it'. If you like it, you'll
just use it more and more as you get the hang of things. But if you
don't have software on it to do the things you want to do, you just
won't find out what it's like to use.


*nodding* That's why I was going to start off with something of low spec
and didn't cost the earth just to get used to it and then slowly put more
things on it before moving to a better spec machine and moving over to
that one instead of this one in a couple of years when I've saved up more
money, I would be used to how a Mac works and I would use the Mac instead
of Windows :o)

(In any case, you'd find it bloody annoying if you don't add /any/
software, I promise.)


I'd add Poser and a webpage making bit of software and take it from there
:o)

You see, as far as I'm concerned, a Mac `as delivered' is not as `user
friendly' as I require from my computers. If you get a Mac, I'll give
you a list of `things you'd find handy to install' - nothing
complicated, nothing that does anything dodgy or devious, nothing that
causes any problems for anything, and nothing that's remotely
confusing (well, probably not confusing anyway). Never mind the
details - they don't matter unless you've got a Mac. And it's not
many bits either.


Okey dokes!

I wouldn't suggest you (or anyone sane) bolt on all the bits I've
added, but there's a subset of my add-ons that I think really ought to
at least be considered by everyone. If you get a Mac, let me know,
and I'll lead you through it. I promise it'll be pretty much
painless, not very time consuming, and I can promise you'll understand
all the bits I think you should consider using. Cost of these bits?
Umm. It is /possible/ to add 'em all for free if you lack money and
aren't troubled by, erm...


I think I know what you mean and I'd prefer not to do it that way... it
may take longer to get the software on the machine but I'd be legal :o)

Getting and installing these bits is not a painful process, and it can
make life a lot easier. `Another upsder' has taken my advice on this
after deciding to get a Mac with no prompting from me at all - anyway,
`this other upsder', a Windoze-only person, went mad for Macs after
using mine for a short while, and seems to think my list of suggested
add-ons is just about right too.


Cool!

No, I'd not suggest that you used *ALL* the add-ons I've got - just a
few of the `really useful bits'.


Groovy :o)

[snip]

So: if you're an avid gamer, don't get a Mac. But otherwise,
it's a better bet than Windoze in general.

I mainly use the computer for email, building websites and using
PSP and Poser and I'll keep using Windows for all those, I just
want to play around with a Mac to see what it's like :o)

Best to play around with it at the jobs you want to do, or you'll
not really find out, will you?

I guess... I can't afford a lot of software for it though
unfortunately!
:o(

You'll find a /lot/ of shareware is available, and though one
shouldn't make suggestions like this, it's not always essential to pay
for the stuff.


It's essential for me!

I have a Big List of URLs. I have many useful Mac Websites listed in
it. Many of the bolt-on goodies I've got to suggest are freeware in
any case.


Groovy!

[snip]

Put it like this: Safari 2 came out years ago. It's long been
able to pass the Acid 2 test.

<http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html>

MS IE /7/ fails the test - the new one (not sure if it's out
yet), v8, is the first MS Web browser capable of passing it.


Blimey! It looks like IE7 fails it badly!

<chuckle> It's a really evil torture test - if the browser fails
it, it's likely to look really nasty.

It didn't even remotely look like it should have done and there was a
scroll bar thing in it too which shouldn't have been there! lol

<grin> Yeah, that's the sort of junk you get to see when the browser
fails the test. A bad mess doesn't mean a *particularly* bad handling
of the test page, it just means `failed'. And while your Web browser
shouldn't fail that test, it's not great shame on the developers if it
takes 'em a bit of time to get round to work out how to get their
browser to pass it. Shame on them, but not *great* shame, you know?


*nodding*

The Acid2 is *really* evil - it's the most stringent test of a certain
set of Web browser behaviours going. Amongst other things, the test
page contains deliberately wrong HTML code to make sure that the Web
browser handles broken HTML correctly.


Oh right!

[snip]

If you get a Mac, it makes sense for *YOU* to put Windoze on it
in my opinion to aid with the transition because you're Windoze
only at the moment. If you don't do that, you could possibly
get stuck at some point if you don't have access to a Windoze
PC. If you've got Windoze available, you can't get stuck
without access to Windoze software.

We've got 3 Windows PCs and a Windows laptop atm... would I still
need to put it on the Mac?

Not if you keep them, not at all. If you've got a home network,
the Mac can connect to your Windoze PCs (although exactly how much
networking will work is anyone's guess - one way or another, you'll
be able to get access to files across the network, although it
might be that `only the Mac can connect to the Windoze machines' or
`only the Windoze machines can connect to the Mac' depending. Why
do I say that? Because I've read lots of questions from people who
have had trouble with that sort of thing, and usually they've got
it working one way but not the other).

We don't have a network, just PCs and laptop that all use the same
router to get access to the net! :o/

Yeah, but hang on: that means you *DO* have a home network!

Even though I can't see the other machines that are connected to it?

Seriously: if all your PCs and laptops use the one router, they've all
got to be networked to it. Do they use wires, or is it wireless that
you use?


It's got wires I think

Not that it much matters, 'cos there will be an Ethernet port on that
router box which should allow a wired network connection to be made to
the household computer network which you really do have, honest.


Okay...

Erm. Of course, you can get `Wifi' (Airport in Mac language) -
wireless networking - for any modern Mac you like. But I prefer wired
networking, which is why I'm talking about doing it that way. I like
the reliability and speed of doing it over wires, you see, and I don't
mind putting a hole in a wall or ceiling for the wire to pass through.


Ah right!

Anyway, if they're all connected to the one router, they're all on the
home network, and you should be able to have them talking directly to
each other without a lot of bother. I've heard many horror stories of
setting up Windoze machines to do that sort of networking between each
other. I've no personal experience of doing so at all with Windoze.

AFAIK we didn't have any problems when we first got cable internet but I
think that is because we had a bloke to come out and do it for us!

I know how to do it with Macs: just go to *that* preferences pane,
turn on file sharing (if that's what you want to do), and then you can
log on to that Mac from any other machine on the home network just by
`navigating to the home network icon, and selecting the computer you
want to connect to'. Type in yer name and password, and Bob's yer
auntie's live-in lover.


You've gone over my head here... sorry!

This allegedly works for getting Macs connected to Windoze machines,
but I've heard of people having trouble with that, mostly because they
can't work out how to get the Windoze machines to do their bit
properly. uk.comp.sys.mac is full of people who solve those problems -
I've read of the fixes many times.


Cool!

[snip]

The flash way of doing it involves Parallels Desktop.

<http://www.parallels.com/en/rc/screens&demos/>

Now, with that on your Mac, you could have all your old Windoze
software available and the new Mac stuff, all running alongside
each other. That'd be dead convenient in many ways - you could
use the Mac stuff until you got stuck, and if you did get stuck,
you'd have your Windoze stuff available to use at the click of a
mouse. For sure it's not a *cheap* way of doing it, but oh boy
oh boy is it fancy or what?

It looks it but I don't think I could afford to do that :o(

No need to worry about it, really. Although you might consider
looking for a second hand copy of Windoze XP or something - I dunno
what that might cost, but if you could get a version that would
work on a Mac (I don't know what limits there are) at low enough
price, it might be something you'd think about. But there's no
need. But - oh, there's MacBook Pro here that belongs to someone
else and I don't use but I've seen it running Windoze and the MacOS
(separately) and it's just one of those `Oh wow!' things, you know?
I love clever gadgets showing off how clever they are. So I'm a
geeky bloke, so what? ;-)

Hold on while I look on Amazon... looking at Amazon prices I can't
afford it and I was looking at used prices so I dread to think what
the New prices are!

They can be horrible[1] - but there are many, many versions of
Windoze. Oh look, you really do not *NEED* Windoze on a Mac, and it'd
be far too much brain-ache for you to figure out a sensibly economic
way of getting a version of Windoze that'd work right without breaking
the bank and let's face it, there's something more useful you could
spend that sort of money on, like a mountain of teddy bears or
similar. (more useful than another bloody copy of bloody MS Windoze,
I reckon - sorry, am I sounding miserably cynical again?)


Apparently we've already got a copy of XP (it was a shock to me as I
didn't know lol) but I don't know if it's Mac compatible... does that
matter?

Rowland.

[1] People complain that the MacOS is expensive. It's not peanuts to
buy - but it is /very/ cheap compared to a full-on copy of Windoze
Vista. <shrug> Both are infinitely more expensive than the free
Unixes - always worth bearing in mind when making comparisons, I feel.
Get it in perspective: it'd better be worth the money to buy the OS,
given that free operating systems are available and they're pretty
good for geeks if no-one else.

*nodding*



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Stay Safe, Mandy
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