Re: XP reinstallation woes on Multiboot system

"Hawkeye23" <me@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:s55942h7ouigqvs49ojjpnl0una37fbbfh@xxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 02:57:59 GMT,
"pmj" <post@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I've snipped as much of the following Quoted Text as practical,
just leaving in the essentials, so as to be able to follow the
Saga - Errr... Sorry, I mean Thread...
:-)

OK...
If you are going to be Installing WinXP from scratch, whether
by Booting off the Install CD, or by Booting into w98SE & Running
the Install from there, then it's going to be OK to remove *all*
the (Temporary) Files (& Folders) that the previous WinXP
Installation has Added.
<snip>
BUT - there are a couple of points to bear in mind...

You definitely mustn't Delete the Boot.ini File. (even though
it will have a "Date Modified" of the Time that you did the
(failed) WinXP Install).

That is needed as part of the Boot Process, even if you only want
to Boot into the (previous) W98SE Installation.

It's read by NTLDR (&/or NtDetect.com?), so those 2 Files are
*also* needed, so don't Delete them, either.
<snip>
The other thing is to make sure that the Boot.ini File contains
a (valid) Entry for the W98SE Installation, cos you will want
to make sure to still be able to Boot into that Installation!
<snip>
Also, make sure to leave in place any File called Bootsect.dat,
(or sometimes it's called Bootsect.dos) (in the Root of the Drive,
not if it's in a Folder) cos that is needed to Boot up into the
previous Version of windoze (W98).

If you Delete all the Files mentioned (& leave the others),
then, like I say, it *should* Boot up OK, but (obviously) only
into the W98 Installation.

Sorry to have disappeared for several days but I decided it was
time to put into practice all the help and advice I've been given
here and back up the thread by you and others.

No probs!
You said you would be away for a while & I've found some (other)
very interesting stuff to be doing as a diversion from some of this
WinXP Install type stuff - I've been using & finding out about
some 3D Modelling & Rendering type stuff, - SketchUp 3D (see the LOA
Thread about that)
http://sketchup/com/

So I deleted all the files you said I could and kept the ones you
said I shouldn't and this worked ok.

Phew!!!
:-)
So, we can breathe a sigh of relief! Now that we know what *should*
be OK, in Theory actually *is* OK, in Practice!
:-)

I have (several times) done that sort of Deleting of what might seem
to be important & Crucial Boot Files on my own (& some other) Systems
But that has always been when I have actually been there, so as to be
able to sort any potential (or actual) ensuing problems.

It's nice to hear that you were able to manage all that OK.

This enabled me to run XP setup several times by both methods -
by direct boot from the XP CD and by autorun of the XP CD from
within W98SE

Or you could do it by Running (from within W98) the WinNT32.exe
(Setup) File in the i386 Folder (either the one on the CD or
the one in the i386 Folder that you copied from the CD to the
Hard Disk.

... - and each time with a relatively clean slate - so that I could
see what got installed where and when.(Why is the advanced course.)

LOL!
:-)

From this I got a better (but not good) understanding of what
happened in the two different setup methods and a clearer and more
consistent set of symptoms/results in each case.
I'll summarise these latter.

Great!
That's the way to suss out these sort of probs!
You need to look for *commonalities* between the various different
methods as well as *differences*, so you can then decide what's
relevant & what's not.

When you boot the pc direct from the XP CD into the DOStype/Text
mode the setup proceeds as described before with 'Setup is copying
files'/yellow progress bar

Yep, at that point it's Copying the Boot Files, ready for when it
ReBoots & *also* it Copies a whole bundle of Files over into the
relevant Folders on the Hard Disk

It decides which Files to Copy over by Reading the (Plain Text)
"Answer File" called txtsetup.sif, which it gets from the CD

... which when it gets to 100% shows for an instant the next screen
which says something like 'Please wait while Setup initializes -
something' whereupon we get the BSOD Stop Error.

Doh!!!
:-(

But for these occasions when we start with a clean *** it is
the same Stop Error.It is STOP:0x0000008E with no capitals at the
top and no file particulars at the bottom.

So that means that whatever the prob is (& was), it's still there.
But that eliminates various things, leaving just a few things to
check out now...

... And both of my main advisors have pointed me to a MSkb article
about that(seelater).

Yep, there is plenty of Info available on the M$KB (micro$oft
Knowledge Base) Site & elsewhere about what can cause those sort
of STOP (BSoD) Errors & what to do about them...

When you let the XP CD autorun from within W98SE (or run
Winnt32.exe from the i386 directory that we copied over from the
XP cd to the HDD)

Or by just Running it (the WinNT32.exe File) from the CD,
within windoze, which is, basically what happens when you let
the CD AutoRun - either of those 3 ways has the same effect.
& they are all (slightly, but subtly & importantly) different
from what happens when you Start Setup by Booting off the WinXP
Install CD.
Running (the initial phase of) Setup that way gives you various
choices such as what Folder (Name) to Install WinXP into.

It then uses a slightly different "Answer File", (rather than the
one called Txtsetup.sif), which contains the Info you have given
in the Dialog Boxes in the first stage.
That "Answer File" is (if I have worked things out correctly)
called $winnt$.inf - it's normally Deleted (or at least Edited
or Changed/Modified) when Setup completes, so the only way you get
to see its (original) contents is if you *don't* let it Boot back
into the Setup Routine at the next ReBoot.

If you "Break into" Setup like that (Booting up into a different
Operating System Installation), you can see (& learn) a lot about
what happens.

Setup starts in the Windows type mode and after answering the
initial questions it sets off 'Preparing Installn' then 'Copying
Installn Files'.

Yep, it's Copying over the Boot Files & *also* Copying over all
(or most of) the Files to the Hard Disk (into a *Temporary* Directory,
just like it does when you do the Install Booted off the CD...

BUT...
It uses (as I mentioned) a *different* "Answer file" - one that
contains the Info you gave in the first stage of Setup.

... With this second method the yellow progress bar gets to 100% ok
and we do see the red progress bar saying it is going to restart
the pc in 15 secs which it does.

Good.
So the Crash is happening at (basically) the same point in the
Installation!
:-)

... You see the multiboot menu with 3 options ie Windows XP/Windows
(98SE)/Windows XP Setup and it defaults to the latter and restarts.

You could Edit the Boot.ini File by catching it quickly at that point
(bearing in mind that the Default Timeout is Set to only 1 Second at
that point, so it's very easy to miss it) & you could Set the Timeout
to whatever Figure you want (in Seconds), so as to then give you time
each time it Boots, to decide whether to Boot into the other (W98SE)
Operating System or to "-1" to make it Wait for a choice.

You could also Edit the Default OS to Boot into, so that it
*doesn't* continue with Setup straight away, giving you a chance
to look at what's what been put on the Hard Disk (so far), looking
for (& at) the various "interesting" Files you will find...
:-)

... The problem is it restarts to the wrong place.

Nope.

... It restarts to the very beginning of the Text type Setup
ie exactly as if you were starting Setup by the first method of
booting direct from the XP CD.

Yep!
That's actually what it's *s'posed* to do!!!
:-)

As I mentioned above, the idea of doing the (first part of) the
Setup from within windoze is only so that you get the chance to tell
it various Options, which you don't get when you Boot up off the CD.
(& also, incidentally), so that you can (if you wanted to) supply
your own "Answer File", containing not only the stuff that you would
normally have to (Manually) Enter in the next stage(s) of Setup,
but also various other Options, which you can use to get the
Installation PreSet how you want it - Network type stuff & Screen
Resolution, etc.

... There is no error message.

What?
Not even a BSoD?
Or have I misread what you are saying happens?

... It just restarts to the wrong place - as if it were reading
the wrong Boot.ini file - or something.

Nope - See above.

... Anyway you cannot get anywhere.If you let the Text type Setup
proceed it's just as if you had booted from the CD

Yep.
*Apart* from it would then use the Info that you gave in the first
part of Setup, to decide where to Install to etc...

... annd at the end of Copying Files you get the same result -
the Stop Error BSOD.

Which actually nicely narrows things down!
:-)

... If you get out of the Text type restart by pressing F3 you are
just left with the Temp Folders ($win_nt$.~ls annd $win_nt$.~bt)
but that's all.

& it makes sure those are left there, so that you *can* continue
with Setup if you then decide that you want to.

So it was time to face up to the issue that has been lurking in
the background and occasionally mentioned - the hardware issue
and RAM modules in particular.

Yep.
I think that you have now discovered (& adequately proved/confirmed)
that it's *something* to do with the Hardware somewhere along the line.

... Both of my chief advisors had reminded me we had problems some
months ago when installing extra 256MB DIMM modules.

Yep.

<snip a bit>
Cos this Reply is getting to be plenty long enough, already!
:-)

So time to bite the bullet.I took out all 3 RAM modules and put
the original one back in the first socket.Having restarted the pc
to make sure everything was ok - particularly W98SE

Good idea!
:-)

... - I then rebooted directly to the XP CD - annd guess what -
it worked.

Wey hey!!!
Nice one!
:-)

& it would *also* now work if you were to do the Install from within
windoze (by Running the WinNT32.exe File in the i386 Folder), either
from the Install CD or from the i386 Folder Copied to the Hard Disk.

Cos you seem to have worked out/proved that it was actually the RAM
(after all!) that was causing the probs!!!

Since then I have done nothing other than heave many sighs of relief.

I can well understand that!
:-)

It might be an idea to ReRun(!) the Setup (yet again!)?
:-)

But this time doing it by Running WinNT32.exe from within windoze,
just to confirm, beyond all doubt, that the prob really is due to
the RAM & not the particular way that you Run the setup Routine
(& also to give you the Options that you don't get when Running
Setup Booted from the CD).

I do not know what this all proves other than the old principle
of how simple everything looks with the benefit of hindsight.

LOL!
Well, I reckon that it (fairly conclusively) proves that there's
*something* wrong with the RAM?
Or maybe just with the RAM Timings? - have a look in the BIOS
to see if there are any Options that you can Choose/Set to alter
the RAM Timings?

Or it may just be a (slight) incompatibility, between the particular
RAM Modules & your Motherboard/ChipSet?

Anyway very many thanks for all your help and support through the
long saga. I would be glad of any thoughts/reactions to the above

Oh!
I'm glad about that!
:-)
Cos I've just written/typed a whole load of my thoughts & reactions
to it all up above there ^^^ somewhere!
:-)

and after I've finished 'heaving' any ideas on where to go from here.

Check out that RAM.
(or send it back?)
Or flog/give it to someone who is prepared to try it in their System?

& now that you have it (the WinXP Install) pretty well sussed out,
just get on & *use* the PC, for whatever it is that you want to use
it for!
:-)

Even if that turns out to just be a sort of "testbed" type thing,
for finding out (more about) what happens during an Install
of WinXP!
:-)

--
pmj


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