Re: Is there anyway to find out where sombody has moved to?


"H Duffy" <hester_duffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"whisky-dave" <whisky-dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"H Duffy" <hester_duffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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That's right; there's nothing particularly strange about altered states
either. I mean, they may feel strange to the person experiencing them,
but they're basically just biological. Think about it; one form of
"altered state" is induced by halucinogenic or otherwise psychoactive
drugs. Well, that's a purely biological reaction to a chemical, innit?
Nothing strange about it, although the experience may be strange.

So are you saying that is what the books that V.s friend has on
the power of blood and how the mind can control the universe is talking
about.

No, I'm not saying that, because I haven't read the books in question,
Well niether have I but from what he says it doesn't seem like
it's a book on the biochemisry of blood.

I'm not qualified to make that call. However, it is quite possible that
when they refer to inducing altered states by using blood (which V says
they did refer to),

I don;t remember him saying that I remember him saying that you can change
the universe or the things in it by thought alone.

that's what they were talking about; certainly it _is_ possible to induce
an altered state by cutting oneself,
But he wasn;t talking about that.

but in that case, it's not the blood that's important, but the pain and
the body's (and mind's) reaction to it.
Yep but it doesn't change anything outside of the body does it
and certainly not anywhere in the universe it won;t even change anything
in the local room.



I'm not sure whether drunkenness technically counts as an altered state,
but it certainly affects your state of mind, yes.
You mean your state of mind doesn't get altered c

Erm... Dave, I said "it certainly affects your state of mind, yes". How
the hell have you interpreted that as meaning "your state of mind doesn't
get altered"? You've actually managed to interpret what I've said as
meaning exactly the opposite of what I stated very clearly.

Because you've said that a girl that is drunk who says she didn't want sex
because she'd never have sex in a corridor and has admitted not remembering
what
she said couldn't have her state of mind altered by alcohol.


ontrary to what you seem to
believe
and what some others belive DRINK is a DRUG.

Alcohol is a drug, yes. What gives you the impression that I disagree with
that?

Drugs/drink affect peoples perception of events and what they want what they
do etc.
And you don;t even begin to consider this effect in the 'rape' case.

Just because the government legalises it and gets tax from it doesn't
mean it doesn't alter the state of the mind.
In your experience do you have ANY reason what-so-ever to believ that
alcohol
efefcts the human being when it comes to wantign or thinking or anything to
do with sex.


Why did you go on about altered states of mind.
V was talking about a book that 'explianed' the power of blood.
Now what is the connection you're claiming ?

In this post;
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.people.gothic/msg/5502b91733baca83
V says " i sneaked another look at a
book and it said about using pain to get a alterd state of mind or
somthing like that, i dont realy understand it, and using your own
blood, and ohter ppls, to get power cos its got energy in it or
somthing, "

And you think that a book that talks about using bolld because it's got
energy
is likey to be a text book on pain an altered states. /
As I said I don't.
In the same way I don't think that Harry potter is a good refernece book
on science.



See that bit about using pain to achieve an altered state? That's the bit
I replied to, in this post;
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.people.gothic/msg/147a9ecc6b83fee1

Pain is in the mind.

Well, no; pain is in the cells.

No it's not. The damaged occurs in the damaged cells.
Those cells produces signals/chemicals and signals to the brain
that there is piain in that area, that's why some people experice pain
in amuptated limbs even though those limbs do not exist.

Yes; the brain is made up of cells.
But that IS NOT where the pain originates generally.

It's the cells in the brain which essentially decode the messages sent by
the damaged cells, via nociceptors.
Yes.


It's also why you can take pain killers to stop headaches.
The cell damaged is largely unaffected but the pain stops.
Pain killers DO NOT repair damged cells.

No, that's right; they block the messages which report that damage, thus
preventing the cells in the brain from reacting.
Almost the cells in the brain can still react to pain as they do, it's just
that
the signals that reach the brain are significantly reduced.
That's why we need different strengths of pain killers.




Yes, and that bit of the book is clearly nonsense. I was _simply_
addressing the stuff he said about the alleged "power of blood", and
trying to offer a logical explanation for that bit alone.

But the blood isn't connected to pain or altering the state of mind.

No, that's right; that's rather what I was trying to explain;
And that's why I considered the book to be crap unless of course you're
interested in such belief systems.

that cutting oneself can induce an altered state not because of the blood,
but because of the pain, which triggers endorphins.
So it could be the endorphines rather than the pain.

I've only had 4 students in the lab this morning so too few to do some tests
on but I'd perhaps cut one and hi the other with a hammer, see if it the
blood that changes their state of mind.
If they have an active one of course.


It's easy to see why people think the blood is the significant bit
Well I think it;s because without blood humans and animals die,
it;'s a very noticable thing that leaks out of us both before and after
death.

(mainly because it's red and messy and very obvious), but actually, it's
the pain which is relevant, when it comes to altered states.

I've found no reference to pain producing the effects V describes
Can you show any such thing where anything says that pain causes the
planets to move or anything happening to the universe .
Why have you changed it from the mind chyanging the universe to
pain changing the universe ?









.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Is there anyway to find out where sombody has moved to?
    ... changing oneself using blood or pain or a hammer or a drug or drink or ... state of mind ". ... cannot induce altered states, but that pain can. ...
    (uk.people.gothic)
  • Re: Is there anyway to find out where sombody has moved to?
    ... So that's a biological action nothing strange about it. ... there's nothing particularly strange about altered states ... Using our own neurochemicals, triggered by pain, to induce an altered state ... it certainly affects your state of mind, ...
    (uk.people.gothic)
  • Re: Is there anyway to find out where sombody has moved to?
    ... about altered states; they have nothing to do with altered states. ... mind can overcome pain. ... the mind can control the universe according to this book of Patrick's. ...
    (uk.people.gothic)
  • Re: Is there anyway to find out where sombody has moved to?
    ... state of mind; I explained that altered states of mind can't be induced ... by blood, although they can be induced by pain. ... So why did you introduce pain we were talkign about blood being the way ... specifically about the supposed link between blood and altered states. ...
    (uk.people.gothic)
  • Re: I guess this is where I end up............
    ... become more and more etc.), volition, mental volition and kamma. ... accompanied by either pleasure, pain or neither. ... middle and then what 'trickles from' them or what the mind attaches to as ... I.e. physicalists ...
    (talk.religion.buddhism)