Re: Theaving Goths


"vampire division" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1127332927.307144.96250@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>


> Actually it is impossible to obtain any accurate data as regard to P2P
> usage to base research on, as it is illegal and noone tells the truth,
> also it is so wide spread over so many sites, that it would be
> impossible to monitor, so all of these articals are based on
> inconclusive data.

I'd probably agree with that although you can get some ideas of what
goes on by interviewing discretely.

>> How do you determine what percentage of these represent lost sales?
>>
>> [Hint: you don't know.]
>
> Well of course I do not know the exact percentage, but put it this way,
> there is one site, that in the past two months has had a file
> downloaded from it hundreds of times this file is over 3 gigabytes, and
> it contains everything we have ever recorded, including cover artwork
> etc. Now it takes a long time to download 3 gigabytes,
Well a fair bit of time but not much effort. :)

>so I would
> assume that most of the people who downloaded it, must have wanted it
> enough to be bothered and give up that much disk space,
a few percent of a new HD, cost to store 3Gb would be about £2,
or 35p on a cheapo DVD, hardly worth deleting if you don't like it,
but if someone is downloading it from a sharer the sharer feels like a
good Samaritan he/she probably doesn't see themselves as a thief,
because they haven't actually stolen anything.

> as it contains
> everything we have ever done, I can also assume that they will not be
> buying anything.
You're probably right there, so you haven't lost an actual sale then,
because there's not much chance that someone that downloads music
for free would consider buying it if it wasn't there for free would they ?
I think assuming that a filesharer would go out and purchase your
entire music output because they want the pleasure of filesharing is
a gross error of judgment.


> So if this file was not there at lease some of them
> would have bought something I would have thought. Also this is just one
> of many sites that have our stuff on.

I've not looked on many filesharing sites but some friends have and there
seems to be two type of sharers those that 'specialise' and those that share
everything and everything they can get their teeth into (byte by byte
perhaps).

The Best fileshares are those that offer a few tracks of a band and then
you can 'interigate' their drive to see what other bands they like, this is
a good
why of escaping the usual genre name trap were some will look for
Goth music and if it's not called goth they won't have anything to do with
it.

>> Oh, you _feel_ it? Then it _must_ be true. Never mind all that boring
>> stuff where you actually gather facts.
>
> Well as I have said it is impossible to get facts,
I'd say difficult to evalute the relevance of those facts too.

> but I do know that
> we have had over 2 million LEGAL downloads from mp3.com and
> soundclick.com (these figures are verifiable)
That's sounds good I hope you've informed the tax man ;-)
remember if you avoid paying tax on anything it's also a form of theft.
Well unless you can affort a tax avoidance employee.

>so if we say guess and we
> have to, that we have had half as many again as illegal downloads that
> makes 3 million. Now our actual sales do not come anything close to
> this, we still have to work etc. So the "I feel" is based in part on
> fact, and as we have acurate figures for the LEGAL downloads it is
> probably as acurate if not more than any of those articles you mention
> above.

The assumption still seems to be that if a person has a track by you that
is obtained ilegally then if they didn't have it they'd be 50% likely to buy
it.

I once had most star trek episodes taped, how many have I actually
bought, well I have 6 films on video, but that's it.
I have had most of the episodes taped and as the cost averages
out at £40-£75 per season and there's around 30 seasons for me to buy
that's a lot of money. I've now started recycling those tapes (in the local
skip)
but havn't plans on buying them instead, I may buy the odd few, so
paramamount haven't really lost £1200 of sales, I'd never have
spent that much on videos or DVDs, the fact that I've copied them from TV
or anywhere else is irrelivant.
But now I've seen the price lowered to £35 per season I might just by a
couple of seasons, but this is because of the packging & durability
not the episodes themselves, it's actualy cost me more to buy
the DL blank DVDs.



> Well there are new bands of course, but there are a lot less new bands,
> than there were 20 years ago, and there are very few making a profit.
>
> However much you try to justify file-sharing it is, theft, if you take
> something that you are supposed to pay for and you do not pay for it
> you have stolen it. It's that simple.
I think that depends on how you see it. For some you can only steal
by depriving someone of the item you've stolen, others don't believe
that taking old stuff oput of skips is stealing, it is.
If you do a cover version of a song does that make you a thief ?
Now what if someon prefers your version and downloaded or bought
it that means the original has possibley lost a sale.


>Now I know that almost everybody
> does it, and I know that there is no way of stopping it, and I am also
> aware that it is deemed acceptable. But file-sharing is making it very
> hard for bands and especially smaller bands to keep going.

It's making it harder to make money at it perhaps, but it cocuild also make
it easier, sell yuo're own CDs for £1 each, rememebr a whole DVD or your
stuff cost lesss than 50p in materials to record, what would the retail
price of your collection be ? and now who's the 'thief'[1]


> point where the line has to be drawn. Why should people download
> everything by Inkubus Sukkubus free when there are people out there
> keeping us going by buying it.

Maybe some just can't afford to go to gigs and buy the records.
Why should kids pay less fare on public transport when the take
up a ONE seat the same as me. Why shouldI pay tax on something
because I live in this country.

> If you download ILLEGAL tracks and share then you are destroying the
> music business,
I don't think destroying the music business would be such a terrible thing.

> file sharing may not be the sole reason for the decline
> in music sales, but it's one of them.
Well I think other interests/hobbies are doing that, video games, films TV.

> Saying that file-sharing is infact some heroic act and is keeping the
> music business going is like a shoplifter claiming that shop-lifting
> improves sales.

But it does, it did for Apple and probably still does, there was some claim
that
15% of Apple sales were to replace stolen computers.

I wonder if someone stole 'my'[2] ipod containing your music
that I illegally downloaded who would be the worse thief. ;-)

of course the film insury will alway be in the shit and losing money
because of VCR, DVDs and whatever else comes around which is strange
considering they keep building more cinemas with bigger/more screens just
about
everywhere.[3]
football also has similar probelms although they can't blame filesharing,
but the football 'business' fails to see that money is the cause of the
problem,
not the solution.



[1] The music industry
[2] I don't have an iPod
[3] except walthamstow


.

Relevant Pages

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