Re: NPB strike ... then buyer pays ...

Spacker wrote:
"Joe Lee" <invalid@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Spacker" <spacker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:rijee4lm4v3d3opsg3lv37ucc3qhushugl@xxxxxxxxxx
"Joe Lee" <invalid@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Spacker wrote:
"Crunchie" <inthespamcan@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Not that they ever did have any obligation to sell at the last
amount offered at the time the listing ended.



Yet another example of Spackers World!

You don't do the learning thing do you.

Not only is there a legal obligation to sell an item for the
highest sum offered at close of listing, but it's also a
Condition which sellers agree
to when signing-up with eBay.

What is the law that says you are not allowed to refuse an offer if
it is made through ebay?

You can cancel an offer, block particular buyers from bidding, or
cancel a listing altogether if you do it within the time allowed, but
if you let a listing run till the end time & one or more bids have
been placed on it you are obliged to sell the item to the single or
highest bidder.

But you can't cancel last minute bids from people you don't want to
sell to. If you went to an auction, do you think some little kid
running in and saying "I bid £10,0000,0000.01 and then running away
would mean you couldn't sell your item to someone who bid £500 just
before it happened?

Did this happen in Spackers World ?
It's difficult to imagine you are being serious when you need to ask such a
daft question.

Or some Nigerian came in and bid the same amount
and said they would give you double that but can you send them the
change by Paypal?

If we consider for a second what actually happens in the real World - if you
recognise the criminal activity (in this case attempted fraud or money
laundering), there is no UK Law the perpetrator could use to get recompense
for your refusal to supply the goods - assuming they would want to approach
the Courts in the first place!

Do you think the buyer should be obliged to complete the transaction
while the seller should be free to change their mind ?

They're not. Neither legally nor do they have any sanctions against
them anymore on ebay.

the buyer is equally as obliged to complete the transaction as the seller
is. That's really the whole point, they enter into a mutual obligation, both
legally & in accordance with the Terms & Conditions of the site. Unless any
of those T&C's are themselves unlawful but I've not come across any.


You must not sell on ebay if you haven't noticed
the massive increase in non payers over the last few months. You now
have the option to block bidders with more than 6 NPB strikes in the
last 12 months. But that will be strikes that they haven't bothered to
appeal against, not total number of strikes.

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind, but it's totally irrelevant to this
discussion.

Even before ebay decided to screw the UK
government out of all the VAT money I doubt they would have had
enough influence to have such a law passed.

The bit about who ebay pays the VAT to has nothing at all to do with
what we're talking about.
You're right though about the law not being changed as it's been in
existence long before ebay was ever thought of.

How would a law specific to ebay be written before ebay was thought
of?

There is no law specific to ebay, who said there was?

What was this law used for,

Governing & resolving Contract disputes.

and why is it not used now?

Eh? It is used now - day in & day out in the County Courts, with regard to
all sorts of disputes not just problems arising through the use of ebay.

But they could still get a neg
and a warning/black mark from ebay for seller non performance or
whatever it is called.

Of course - for the reasons stated above.

But there would be no dawn raid by police or Trading Standards
officers. Can you see the big difference there?

The first thing I notice is that you seem to think the "police might
be involved.
Can you explain why you think they might be when we're discussing
breach of Contract, which is a civil & not a criminal offence.

Dowloading mp3s is a civil offence, but that doesn't stop the police
from getting involved. Who would protect the TS officers from these
hardened criminals who reject offers of payment? I doubt their health
& safety laws would allow them to kick someone's door in unguarded.



If ebay had got a new
law passed by UK government they would want it to be enforced.

As above, there has been no new law passed re breach of Contract.

Both of which could affect their future ability
to sell on ebay. And if they already have warnings for fee
avoidance or VERO it will be game over.

Correct, so all you need do now is figure out why. Here's a clue
for you "see above").

Because the seller refunded the payment, and ebay take fee avoidance
very seriously.

That *&* the fact that they had an obligation to sell at the last
amount offered at the time the listing ended, & by not doing so they
are in breach.

If that was the case they would take the buyer's responsibility to pay
for things they bid on into account too. Like with refusing an offer
of payment, it is not against UK law, but it is against ebay law. Does
it not strike you as odd that it is only the ebay laws that affect
fees paid to ebay that are enforced?

When you say "ebay laws" I expect you mean ebay's Terms & Conditions & they
are an *entirely* different think to what is legislated in Parliament, i.e.
the "Law"
If you really can't tell the difference then I can understand why you're having difficulty with this.


Good Luck.
Let's know how you get on with it.

You seem to be struggling with the idea of equality between the
buyer & the seller.

What equality would that be?

If the single or highest bidder doesn't pay then they are equally in breach of Contract as the seller who refuses to sell & if you suffered a loss due to their non-payment then you would be entitled to sue for damages due to their breach. So it's not a "pick on the sellers" thing but a simple piece of law which provides both parties with rights as well as obligations. Is that any help to you ?

--
Joe Lee

.

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