Re: Nobody proposing new uk newsgroups - why ?

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:39:54 +0000 (GMT), fred
<fredc@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Monday, in article
> <slrndp9bpt.lpm.chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> chris@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Chris Croughton" wrote:
>
>> Saying that all unmoderated groups will become troll-infested and
>> unusable is not only defeatist but it's demonstrably incorrect. I've
>> seen groups survive a massive onslaught of off-topic stuff, if the
>> regular users are sensible about it. I've seen others where the users
>> folded at the first troll or spam. It's a matter of how much the users
>> actually want to use the group as opposed to playing with the troll...
>
> But I didn't say that.
>
> What I say is that while the system allows one person to completely
> wreck at least one group then the system is broken.

Every system is 'broken'. Every /possible/ system is 'broken'. Better
not only leave Usenet but also leave the whole world. Utopia is not an
option. "While the system allows one person to completely wreck a
family the system is broken" -- true, in that sense, but the only
'solution' which will work is die Vernichtung, getting rid of all the
people...

Look at moderation, and the number of 'broken' moderated groups (not
always by design, just look at what happens when a modbot owner goes
away and the modbot crashes).

> I don't agree with your "I'm alright Jack" attitude that so long as they
> don't kill *too* many groups it's alright.

They won't kill any groups unless the users let them do it. It's the
users of the infested groups who generally make it worse by 'playing'
with the trolls, arguing with them, trying to 'convert' them, correcting
them, etc. (look at the recent fuss over an adverts group where the
regulars 'correcting' the behaviour they didn't like were in fact
causing the majority of the traffic).

> "First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a
> Jew."

Not relevant. First, "It's only Usenet, nobody dies" -- if the whole
lot went away it wouldn't cause a major upset (and as users we have /no/
control over what the newsadmins and their providers decide to do, ISPs
now provide news servers only as a favour to a few, it isn't a selling
point and probably costs them a lot more than they get from the few who
would go somewhere else). Secondly, there is nothing anyone can do
about the trolls unless you get everyone to UDP the offending sites,
and see above about how much power users have to do that (and UDP is
generally only done for abuse /of/ the net not abuse /on/ the net;
BI-spam is cancellable, meaning that if someone decides to issue 3rd
party cancels for it they won't be TOSsed for it, but UDP is generally
only used against sites which cause technical problems (flooding, bounce
loops, etc.)). Thirdly, as I said above, it's a matter for the users of
the group. If they want a moderated newsgroup, and are willing to pay
for it (by providing a modbot and/or moderators) that's up to them.

If you want to petition your ISP about it, go right ahead (since I'm not
a customer they'll ignore me). Or post to nanau and try to get others
to agree.

Chris C
.

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