Re: OT: Hogfather

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:40:26 GMT, invalid@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Tony Gardner)
wrote:

While spitting out some home-made cheese, I heard Ralph B
<google78@xxxxxxxxxxx> say


foamie wrote:
On 19 Oct, 09:31, Ralph B <googl...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 19, 9:56 am, foamie <foamclean...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On 19 Oct, 07:13, Ralph B <googl...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Just finished Terry Pratchett's "Hogfather". Quite amusing, but was
left a little confused regarding Ridcully's bathroom. Why did he nail
it up again? There was some connection with the Librarian and his
playing of the University organ, but I'm unclear on what actually
happened, and if and how it involved the lost soap. I was getting a
little tired at the end. Are anyotherats any clearer on events than I?

I don't think it's clear exactly what happened in the bathroom. It's
left to your imagination somewhat - I have a composite picture of the
prison showers, the abuse of soap, strong jets of water and bidets.
Any device of BS Johnston (or is it Johnson, can't quite remember)
should be nailed up. There are numerous examples of useful ones, but
not in the way they were intended.

Hmm. Rather unsatisfactory ending overall I thought.

[SPOILER SPACING STARTS]
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[SPOILER SPACING ENDS]

All the business with Death saying the Sun would not have risen - only
that a burning ball of gas would have illuminated the sky. Wha?

Death/Pratchett is saying that the demise of the Hogfather would mean
a revolution in the way people look at the universe.

You can look at the universe in (at least) two ways.

First, there's a reductionist view, in which the Sun is no more that a
ball of burning gas, you, your spouse, your children and your friends
are no more than complex assemblages of chemicals, and love, fear,
hatred are nothing more than the outcome of bioelectrical activity in
the brain (which, like the rest of the body, is nothing more than a
collection of chemicals). This view of the universe allows no room
for the view that the inhabitants of the Discworld (or Earth, for that
matter) are anything other than insignificant temporary biological
phenomena.

Or, there's the romantic viewpoint, in which people are assumed to be
somehow important. Love, hatred, despair, hope, joy and sadness have
some meaning. This view of the universe allows us to personify natural
phenomena (the sun, for example, is given a name) and it leaves room
for romantic fictions such as the Hogfather, and the Soul Duck (if I
remember correctly).

Pratchett is suggesting that life is only bearable if we accept the
romantic viewpoint. Once we really accept, in our heart of hearts
that our existence is utterly without meaning, the only emotion we can
feel is utter despair.

When Death says that The Sun will not rise, but a ball of burning gas
will illuminate the sky, he is saying that the demise of the Hogfather
will lead to the people of the Discworld falling, irredeemably, into
the reductionist view of the universe and into a state of total
despair (which is what The Auditors want). In short, they will lose
that which makes them human.

I'd agree with all of that except for the bit you allow by your "at
least". I think that the latter part of your first paragraph doesn't
follow from the former.

It's quite possible to believe that "the Sun is no more that a
ball of burning gas, you, your spouse, your children and your friends
are no more than complex assemblages of chemicals, and love, fear,
hatred are nothing more than the outcome of bioelectrical activity in
the brain (which, like the rest of the body, is nothing more than a
collection of chemicals)." while also believing that people are of
supreme importance and that there is much to give life meaning - indeed
that the very randomness of it makes it even more precious.

I know it's possible. I do it.

Rather presumptuously, I suspect that's also fairly close to TP's
philosophy.
--
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