Re: OT A question of pronunciation


"Julian Day" <jd401@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:edp9k9$s7q$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about pronouncing foreign names, which
is
that I don't think we should try too hard. It may be different if you're
actually addressing someone to whom you might give offence, but when a
word
is just part of the vocabulary I don't see why it shouldn't be naturalized
into English. Most of us say "Paris" rather than "Paree" (with a French
"r"
at the back of the mouth). We say "Jesus" with an English "J"; I bet
that's
not how it was said in 1st Century AD Aramaic! And I wouldn't mind betting
that most French people pronounce English names in a pretty Frenchified
[1]
way.

I agree that, as you say, there's a difference between words and names that
are now accepted as part of the English language and words or names in
another language that are simply being referred to in passing, almost in
inverted commas.

Paris and Moscow and many other place-names were given their pronunciations
at a time when British Imperialism was strong and there was a great
reluctance to make any concessions to Johnny Foreigner. There's more often
attempt nowadays to pronounce place and personal names in a way that's more
similar to that used by speakers of the language they belong in (Kenya,
Beijing, Mhumbai or whateveritis, etc).

Other words like envelope and garage and ersatz and cappucino and glasnost
trickle into our language over the years and once they become a permanent
part of our vocabulary, we tend to pronounce them in a more English way. The
same applies to the way we form plurals of the nouns and decline the verbs.

But for someone like Fermat, he's not a household name in English or likely
ever to become one. Like many people, I didn't know he was French and would
therefore not have been sure how to pronounce his name, but given that he is
French, it's "Ferma". Maybe Rosie didn't put it very tactfully, but once you
know it's French, anyone who'd managed to stay awake for more than a few
French lessons at school could work out that it was very likely to be a
silent "t" - you don't need A-level or even GCSE to know that much. If in
doubt, you can usually assume that at least the last letter of a French word
will be silent, often several letters (and yes I know there are exceptions,
I'm just giving a rule-of-thumb).


--
Best wishes,

Marjorie


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Naming Conventions - Was: Asha Bhosle Interview...
    ... So we write it correctly in our own language. ... When we create an English spelling for our name, ... If I want my American friends to pronounce my name correctly, ... in the west get the sound of "th' correctly after a bit of practice. ...
    (rec.music.indian.misc)
  • Re: Latin pronunciation puzzle
    ... > I think the realistic approach is that the pronunciation of scientific names ... >> justified by the Middle English burw, ... > language it belongs to and to append the Latin ... would pronounce the name attenboroughi: ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Naming Conventions - Was: Asha Bhosle Interview...
    ... So we write it correctly in our own language. ... When we create an English spelling for our name, ... If I want my American friends to pronounce my name correctly, ... in the west get the sound of "th' correctly after a bit of practice. ...
    (rec.music.indian.misc)
  • Re: redaing levels
    ... can't read the read the word anymore, that's you reading ... the hell has the ability to pronounce the word to do ... are a _lot_ of English words  I can read and understand, ... English is an acquisitive language: ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Fr/lat/ru tu-vous/tu-vos/ - : etymology ?
    ... Any German that knows English would know that the s in crazy cat are ... and pronounce the hereabouts famous word Chuchichäschdli ... The sounds of a language are acquired in early childhood, ...
    (sci.lang)