Re: Children of the revolution

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 07:35:57 -0700 (PDT), Nigel Oldfield
<wmcriticalestoppel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[Facts are observations and measurements that are consistent with the
context in which they are observed and measured and, like their
context, are working models subject to revision and reinterpretation
as knowledge and understanding increase.]

No, facts are rarely (if ever) subject to revision or they would not
be facts. You are confusing Facts with Knowledge.

The mechanics and nature of what constitutes a fact are subject to
expansion and revision as knowledge increases.

[And so far there are no absolute facts]

See above, you want me to make a list?

List all you like and it will be a list of observations and
measurements within a context that is subject to revision as knowledge
expands.

Here is an easy one for you ... it is an Absolute Fact (e.g. from
repeated observation), that I have two legs. It is also The Truth, in
this case, I Know it to be the case.

It is not known what you or anybody else is beyond appearing to be a
transitory phenomenon within a Universe that is not understood. That
transitory phenomenon can be measured and quantified within the
limited context of present observation, but this is something that is
incomplete and subject to revision. This is very far from knowing any
absolute "Truth" about it.

One does not need to understand something on a fundamental level to
Know The Truth about it.

If you don't know fundamentally what a thing is and how and why it is
doing what it does then you do not know the truth about it.

You are stuck with a list of observations and measurements that are
subject to revision and at best constitute a working model of
something you really know little about and which is most certainly
subject to revision and change.

[All there are are observations that things seem to have happened a
certain way in what we call the past, but nobody knows why or how or
can say with absolute certainty that things will continue to behave in
the same way in what we call the future.]

That is To Know, not what Facts are.

Facts are statements of observations and measurements of events taking
place within something which is not understood and are therefore not
absolutes but are working models subject to revision as knowledge
increases.

[Science is a codification of measurements and observations that are
subject to revision and reinterpretation as knowledge and
understanding increase]

Only at certain levels.

I Know it is True that DNA is made from the 4 Bases (amongst other
things); that will never change, because the Facts (i.e. the measured
data, imaging etc) that tell me so, are Absolute. I can give you many
more examples.

You should be prepared for your "facts" to go the way of Phlogiston
theory as more is understood on deeper levels of what is going on.

The most that can be said of any "fact" is that it is the best working
model that we have and should not be taken as absolute.

[Science should be regarded as the best working
model we have so far.]

No, Science is not a model, it is a process, which utilises models,
until The Truth is Known.

How can you say there are absolute "facts" when you admit that Truth,
whatever it may be, is unknown.

[ If someone believes that science is concerned
with absolute facts they are as deluded as religionists who believe
that their beliefs are absolute.]

I trust I have proven why you (and others) are incorrect.

Not really.

Svenne


.

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