Re: What's going on here?

Mike Ross wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:21:38 +0100, The Wanderer <wanderer@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:54:44 -0400, Mike Ross wrote:

He then went on to, apparently, passively acquiesce to her driving
too fast in very heavy rain. If indeed he was aware of her speed. I
don't see how that passive acquiescence could or should amount to
'aiding and abetting'. If he had said 'go on, put your foot down,
throw it around a bit, let's have some fun' - yes. But to call that
degree of inaction 'aiding and abetting' - no... it would be much
better for him if he had simply fallen asleep from his excess of
wine. For the law to treat him as so culpable for merely being
awake but saying nothing... no, I don't buy that. Do you see my
point?

No, not really. For a start, we none of us know what was said in
their statements, or what was said in court. The only thing that we
do know for certain is what was reported by the newspaper

Aye, and as I posted elsewhere, the Express have a direct quote:

"Prosecutor Michael Fowler said Nichols could have stopped Butres.
"He was in a position to say to her at any time 'stop' or 'slow
down'. In not doing that he was as guilty as she is," he said."

I'm sorry, he said it but I don't buy it. Criminal 'aiding and
abetting' requires, or should require, more - much more - than
someone merely keeping silent when (some would say) they should have
spoken up.

The fact that he was not only charged with this offence by the CPS - but also convicted, suggests that you are wrong!


Mr Fowler said witnesses noticed how quickly the Jaguar was
travelling,
but he added: "Even that is not the best evidence of her speed.

"The Jaguar was fitted with 'black box', a device which records key
features of the performance of the vehicle when it is triggered."

The recorder showed the Jaguar was travelling at 113mph - whereas
other traffic had slowed to 40mph because of the standing water.

Mr Fowler added: "It was a massive speed for the situation at the
time.
It was plainly dangerous, driving at that speed in those
conditions."

He said Nichols could have prevented Butres from causing the
tragedy.

Ah you found the quote too.

"He was in a position to say to her at any time 'Stop' or 'Slow
down'.
In not doing that he was as guilty as she is. It is plain he did not
intervene," he said.

On that basis, and whether you like the idea or not, it seems that
the passenger in a vehicle being driven dangerously may well be
prosecuted - presumably aiding and abbetting - if they fail to make
representations to the driver to slow down. Seems pretty clear cut
to me.

I don't like the idea, and I'm not so sure an appeal court would like
the idea. I think there may well be grounds for appeal here. Can we
have some more input from someone with experience of the criminal
law? What's the threshold for aiding & abetting? Has simply remaining
silent been found to amount to aiding and abetting in other cases? It
doesn't seem very clear cut to me.

On the basis of your argument, a bystander could be convicted of
aiding & abetting an assault, on the basis that they remained silent
and didn't intervene, rather than remonstrating with the assailiant
and doing everything they could to get them to stop.

Every case of this sort will be considered by the CPS on its merits. How culpable a car passenger, or bystander would be, will depend entirely on the individual circumstances.

Ret.

.

Relevant Pages

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