Re: I note that no one is mentioning Jim Bates this morning!

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:24:55 +0000, Palindrome wrote:

lisabartal@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
<snip>
I have made this as crystal clear as I can...each time a "file" is
made...that is downloaded, the hash value changes-slightly.

You have lost me totally on that one. The only way that I know that a
hash value could change is if the file is corrupted in transit.


Or if the hash file contains the timestamp, I suppose. Not impossible, but
would be unusual. Hash files usually are used to uniquely identify files
(though they don't, completely) in p2p applications.

Any hash
values within a certain range are supposedly classed as cp. Yes, he
was charged with a hash value being found our our computer which was
within the range that is listed as cp. No one could actually find the
file...just the hash value in unallocated clusters. People can not be
charged for that- we didn't know at the time.

Charged with what? that a particular group of random clusters and part
clusters generated a particular hash number?

I don't quite know what Lisa is saying. I suspect she is saying that the
hash value for a particular Kazaa file was found in the appropriate format
in unallocated clusters.

It is actually probably fair comment that if the Kazaa file with this hash
exists on your machine it is likely that Kazaa has done something with it.
This doesn't mean however that it has been downloaded or even that the
person operating it had any interest in it at all.

Firstly, he may well have accessed the file but he hasn't actually
downloaded that file. He might not have downloaded even a part of that
file ; merely requested it. There are p2p files you can't download (they
are incomplete).

Secondly, this does not necessarily mean he meant to download a specific
file name associated with that hash value. Some p2p applications can
attach multiple names to the same hash value.

This would normally be similar things, e.g. suppose it is an imaginary
episode of Star Trek, it could be under.

Star Trek (1x01) The Beginning.avi
Star_Trek_1x01.avi
ST: The Beginning S01E01 (English, DivX 720x576).AVI
The Beginning (Trek copied by Hackkkkkerrrr).avi

but there's nothing to stop someone attaching the following to that same
hash.

Windows_XP_Password_Crack.exe

Clicking on download on any of the above text names would download the
appropriate file - the *intention* may be to download the password crack
but instead you get an episode of Star Trek.

(Indeed, I recall a singer (Madonna I think) uploaded what claimed to be
her latest single but actually was an MP3 of someone yelling "don't pirate
!" repeatedly)

My understanding is a crime has to be committed knowingly ; if you
download the above file after clicking on "Windows XP ...." you could be
guilty of attempting to pirate Windows XP but not Star Trek.

Thirdly, of course, he may simply have done a search. If he did so, it is
possible (depends on how Kazaa works) that it takes the unique ID hash and
sends it to the other nodes to ask if they are distributing that file (so
it knows how many potential download nodes are available), or it sends the
search string to nodes and they return text and hashes, depends on the app
I suppose.

This search could have been innocuous. Supposing he had searched for the
film "Apollo 13" ; it could have turned up a file like "13 year old
Babysitter (uploaded by Apollo478)" ; the hash for this would then have
been in his system (as indeed would be the text).

So, it was entirely possible that he downloaded a file, say called
"XP-Password-Hack" without knowing what the true contents were - other
than they were from a totally unknown source with a cavalier attitude to
the law, at best. Such files often contain viruses, trojans, backdoors,
etc. Why anyone would download such things is beyond me, but they can
hardly complain if what they get are pornographic images of children.

That may well be the case, but if that is the case he is not guilty of
distributing or making Child Pornography, surely, but of attempted piracy.

If it is was the result of a search ; it is fairly easy to get very
dubious things through legal searches, because so much of the material is
dubious. Try searching for "cricket" for example (a uk sport) ; you will
get half a dozen videos of various games and a lot of videos of an
"actress" by that name.

aMule I know for a fact displays what it calls the "File ID" in the
search result, so in the case of aMule you can have the Hash of a file in
a cluster without ever having requested that file as a download or asked
for it directly.

I am aware generally Plod doesn't give a *** about this, and applies the
"stupid jury will believe any old technocrap" approach to convictions or
threats for cautions.



.