Re: Solution to youth problems

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:02:45 +0100, Mogga
<di@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You've not seen gangs of 20 kids lurking on the streets?

No. Except just after school finishes, ad then they are not "lurking"
but walking home.

I think you must be very lucky then.

No more so that everyone else I know. Perhaps it's you who is
particularly unlucky - if you really do experience those things.

You've not
seen gangs of 30-40 drunken teens rampaging?

No. Does that happen in many places?

Yes in enough places for disersal orders to be issued.

I have no idea under what circumstances such orders may be issued.
I'm not really sure what "rampaging" comprises of either.

I don't hang round on the streets in huge gangs.

The most I've seen are about 8 in a group.

Well sadly round here they hang out in huge groups. I'm sure this
isn't the only place they do so either.

I have been in quite a few places, and I can honestly say that I have
never seen anything like that size group - except, as I said, if
organised events are taking place.

I don't drink on the streets.

You don't have to. You are permitted to drink in pubs.

Are you suggesting milk bars as a place for kids to congregate?

No, parks are fine if the weather's OK. Otherwise maybe a fairly
informal social club. If you can find one for teenagers.

I don't jump on people's cars.

I've not seen that, and nobody I know has had it happen. I know of an
elderly woman who goes around "keying" cars that she thinks are
inconsiderately parked. One of my son's friends once decided to pull
the rearview mirror off a car in a "teenage strop" and it was a very
serious matter.

Equally poor behaviour that perhaps should be challenged and punished.

It was, and she was arrested for causing criminal damage. Released
with a caution IIUC. The owner of the damaged car she was caught
scratching is suing her for the cost of repair (which is non-trivial -
the scratch is through to the bare metal). She is now running the
sympathy line - poor widowed pensioner with weak heart etc.

But you suggested that they should not be permitted out after 7PM
unless accompanied. Try it with your daughter in another 4 years and
report back the result.

Are they going somewhere? Or are they set to walk the streets?

They are socialising in a public place. They have as much right to be
out on the streets as you do. It's not their first choice of place -
they would no doubt prefer to socialise in a pub or a club. But many
socialising places are closed to them, and most others cost money that
the kids don't have. Private houses *are* used quite a bit, but the
parents usually get pissed off with a crowd of noisy kids in the house
and turf them out (as I have a suspicion you will soon discover).
Houses where the parents demand that the children sit and listen to
Beethoven at low volume or quietly discuss their homework problems are
not particularly popular. If there is a park or similar readily
available they will often use that - although they get hassled by the
police in many of those types of place. Around here they usually hang
out on or near the beach if the weather's OK and are usually left in
peace - and do no harm AFAICS except for littering. Which if I were
being charitable could be blamed on the lack of any bins.

You
think anyone is likely to go and ask 20 kids to get off their fence
following the recently attacks?

I have never had 20 kids sitting on my fence, have you?

No I had 4 jumping through my hedge last week though. Luckily we've
not got walls for them to sit on.

I suggest planting a few nettles or thorny plants to discourage that
behaviour. I suspect that they were being *pushed* into the hedge
whilst indulging in horse-play.

Even people lurking in shopping centres causes stress. You don't know
if that gang is one that'll knife you, spit at you or just make nasty
comments.

Kids are not responsible for your paranoia.

I don't think it's paranoia to be concerned for your own safety.

It is if there is no real danger.

You must be lucky to have x-ray vision to check for knives and to not
have any concerns about walking past large gangs of youths.

I similarly would not know if *you* have a knife and might stab me as
I passed. I consider the probability of being attacked with no
warning in that way simply too low to worry about. Unless I were to
behave stupidly of course - there are *some*& areas where I would not
visit at certain times.

Anyway - you don't see any possible reason why a 17 year old might
want to be out on the streets after 7PM alone, so why do *you* want to
go out alone at night? If you are that concerned, simply stay at home
unless you are escorted by a beefy guy.

Because they have a different set of pastimes and do not want to do
only the things that adults want to do. It is in fact considerate of
kids to go somewhere to "do their thing" where it will *not* cause
annoyance to the old fogies - and that's what most kids do.

Well why can't they do it in someone's house, garage, a park, youth
club, social event? Why do they have to "do their thing" outside
shops, houses and walking round in big gangs?

Mainly because the other places are unavailable for the reasons I have
given, or have overly restrictive rules attached. I looked into
various places that my children might like to go to when they were
teens. There was one club that was safe and the kids liked. But it
was closed down in a few weeks after noise complaints from residents
nearby, and fears about the large group of teenagers that would
congregate outside for 30 minutes or so at closing time. They used to
go to a skate park for a while, but that tended to attract undesirable
*adults* after dark, and after a couple of youngsters had been mugged
for their phones by drunk or drugged-up itinerants, I decided that it
was a bit too risky.

Generally speaking they do not do any such thing. And as I have said,
your description of groups of 30 kids is highly exaggerated - you will
find that size group only at social events & clubs etc - just as you
do with adults. IME friendship groups are more like 3 to 7.

If they have friendship groups of 3-7 then they'd fit in a bedroom or
lounge. Parents could take it in turns to host the teen-gatherings and
keep them off the streets.

Ha! I *know* that you don't have teenage kids. There are a few
parents who are happy to do that. I used to do it myself because my
wife & I are pretty tolerant - but after a time it started getting a
bit much even for me during the long Summer holidays where it was
every day. Only one other parent of all my children's friends would
allow the same thing.

Having your pre-teen child's friends around is one thing. Teenagers
are a different story! It only lasts about 5 years though (per
child).

If you *do* allow groups of teenagers to socialise in your house
frequently, you can expect to get complaints from neighbours, and
blamed for all the vandalism in the area and any petty thefts.
Because you will become known as a person who "encourages that sort of
thing". Also expect to be looked at with suspicion by the parents of
the other kids who *won't* allow them to congregate in their house.
After all, why would a grown man/woman seek out the company of
children. Eh? nudge nudge, wink wink. Say no more.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

And I know teens wouldn't like it. But they can't grow up expecting to
have everything they want all the time regardless of the consequences.

Generally speaking they do not expect anything of the sort.

Well you've just said they don't want parents hanging round with them
There is a problem in this country at the moment.
Perhaps having parents out with them would protect them from some of
the dangers
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1013/1013899_bolton_teenager_stabbed_to_death.html

Yes, teenagers on the streets are certainly in more danger from other
teens than adults are. Which was a big reason why I didn't like my
kids hanging around in the streets - even though I knew that they
would not get up to any serious mischief and were certainly not
"feral". If a kid makes a silly comment directed at me, I'll say
something to defuse the situation. Another teenager is likely to
retort with something that results in tempers flaring and a fight
delveloping. My boys were just as bad as any other.

--
Cynic

.

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