Re: simple advise needed on contracts
- From: fido <r@xxxx>
- Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 05:43:16 -0700
On 23 Jun, 11:44, peter <peter.jenni...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 23, 9:55 am, fido <r...@xxxx> wrote:
On 22 Jun, 18:04, peter <peter.jenni...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I supply goods from Europe into the UK, I'm an agent for various
Europeans suppliers. I received an order from a UK customer for 1 load
+ 1-2 more. The order was verbal. I agreed this with my supplier. Then
a formal order came in for the first load and I passed it on to the
supplier, they supplied, invoiced directly and were paid in full.
Then I received a second order. The supplier then said that they had
run out of goods and hadn't reserved goods as they had never received
a formal order for more than one load! It's a steeply rising market,
so the customer can't buy elsewhere at the same price and is
understandably angry. They say that they will look to force me to
supply two more loads at the same price, but can they?
a) The only formal order was for the first load. This order was
completed by the supplier. My name didn't appear on any of the papers.
In theory then this order is still unfulfilled and I didn't sign any
contract/order.
b) The subsequent orders were verbally placed and although I'm
inclined to sympathise with the customer, this doesn't help if the
customer wants to force me to supply. I had a verbal order with the
supplier (I've known them for years), but they seem to have forgotten
the order or have sold the goods in a sellers' market.
c) Although they sent through a formal second order. I came back to
them immediately with the problem and so didn't accept it.
As always I'm trying to supply the goods from elsewhere, but I'd like
to point out to the customer that there is little point in trying to
force me to supply.
Am I correct?
Peter
A verbal contract is legally binding put the problems are proving that
there was a contract in the first place and agreeing on what exactly
what was said. Did you agree to supply further items at the same price
or did you just say that you would try to make further supples if they
were available? You see the problem? It's always best when dealing
with business suppliers and customers to have things in writing. Keep
in mind many suppliers have it in their T&C that their price for
anything they supply will be the price at the *time* they supply, this
is because with some commodities the market varies so much and very
rapidly. This time you may have to supply at your agreed price and pay
your supplier the higher price and absorb the loss. If you don't
supply the items at all then the worst your customer can probably do
is to buy elsewhere and sue you for the difference he has to pay and
your price. I don't see how the customer could force you to supply.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But:
a) Don't I have an agreement with my supplier by the same logic then.
I told them to prepare extra loads for the customer. They say nothing
came in writing except for the first order. I only received one firm
order from the customer in writing.
b) At what point did I agree to the verbal contract? If the supplier
delivered and invoiced the goods surely I can't be made to supply
goods at the same price when I haven't supplied them in the first
place.
Peter
A contract is made when one party makes an offer (to supply or to buy)
and the other party accepts that offer.However a lot of negotiating
can take place before an offer and acceptance actually takes place. It
can be confusing, especially when a verbal contract is made, to decide
when the point has been reached that a contract has actually been
made. If you say to a supplier 'ok, I accept your price, please send x
items asap', and he says 'ok, I'll do that' then you have made a
contract. However it's not always that simple, a supplier may well
have written T&Cs which he expects you know about, (such as charging
the price in force when he despatches the goods). You could argue that
you didn't know about such T&Cs and therefore couldn't be expected to
have agreed to them.
You don't say how much money is involved, but if it's a lot (and
what's a lot will depend on your financial circumstances) it would
probably be best to consult a solicitor. although their advice can be
expensive. Only you can make the decision of what to do.
Unfortunately the outcome can depend on the size of the parties
concerned. If you're a small business dealing with a large supplier
then can always say 'get lost if you wont accept our prices'. If they
are the only supplier of the said items, then you're stuffed. If you
take court action against them, and succeed, they may well refuse to
supply you in the future. You can always say to your customer 'I
cannot supply you with the prices you want, and I'm not going to
supply you.' You will lose a customer, but hopefully you have other
customers. At the very worst, (as I've said) they could buy from
elsewhere, paying a higher price, and sue you for the difference.
However, from what you've said it would seem quite possible that as
everything was done verbally they may have problems proving the terms
of the contract, even if there was one.
There is an old saying... 'a verbal contract is not worth the paper
it's wriiten on', meaning 'how the hell do you prove what was said?'.
But... be warned, many firms now record telephone calls.
.
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- From: peter
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