Re: Evidence of identity for conveyencing


"PeteM" <Otcbn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:iMF8SLAApaaEFw+N@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Mike <spamdump@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> posted
Willy wrote:
The Todal wrote:

It would be easy to just ask the solicitor and avoid wasting his time
and
yours. I can however assure you that there are some solicitors who will
not
demand proof of identity.


This i find hard to believe

I find it hard to believe that, in what is supposed to be a free
country, it's necessary to provide proof of ID.


It is actually sensible for the *seller* to be required to provide ID.
That helps prevent the fraud whereby a crook (given favourable
conditions) can pose as the owner of a property, collect the buyer's
cash and vanish. The Land Registry system is quite vulnerable to such
frauds; the only way it identifies the property's owner to the potential
buyer is by his name and address. There isn't even a facsimile of the
owner's signature on the land certificate, since the Land Registry never
asks to see the real owner's signature (except in exceptional cases).

But I can't see any reason why the buyer should have to identify
himself. Other than the so-called money laundering (ha! ha!)
regulations.

It is indeed money laundering regulations, and I quote from the Law Society
website below. As I have pointed out in a separate post, not all solicitors
pay much heed to these new-fangled requirements. Solicitors (especially the
older ones in the smallest firms) like to continue doing whatever they have
done in the past, and it is unlikely that anyone from the Law Society will
ever have the time or skill to pay visits and audit firms.

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/professional/conduct/guideonline/view=page.law?POLICYID=225045&PARENT=161546

General principles
3.66 Solicitors must be satisfied that they are dealing with a real person
or organisation (natural, corporate or legal), and obtain satisfactory
evidence of identity to establish that the client is that person or
organisation. For the purpose of the ML Regulations 2003, "satisfactory
evidence of identity" is evidence which is reasonably capable of
establishing (and does in fact establish to the satisfaction of the person
obtaining it) that the client is the person he or she claims to be.
3.67 Some firms may wish to produce standard forms for use by their staff in
relation to evidence of identity.
3.68 In deciding what evidence is satisfactory, and how much evidence is
required, a common sense approach should be applied. There will be
circumstances when it will be both necessary and permissible to apply
commercial judgement to the extent of the initial identification
requirements. Decisions will need to be taken on the number of persons to be
identified within the client organisation, the identification evidence
required, and whether additional evidence is necessary.

snip

3.71 You may make checks by looking at actual documentary evidence such as
passports and certificates of incorporation issued by Companies House, or by
making electronic checks of suitable databases such as the FSA register, the
Law Society database of practising solicitors, and the electoral register.
Where you rely on an electronic check it may be advisable to print out and
retain a copy of the evidence with your records.
3.72 You may also ask third parties, such as investigation and information
service providers, and credit reference agencies, to obtain the evidence for
you as long as you are reasonably satisfied that they are reputable, and
that the evidence they produce will be reliable, and that you ensure that
your records of the evidence are complete. For example, you may rely on a
copy of the details page of a passport as part of the evidence of identity
if it has been certified by a reputable lawyer (for details as to who may
photocopy UK passports see paragraphs 3.79 - 3.80).
3.73 When using a combination of electronic and documentary checks, you must
ensure that different original sources of information are used. For example,
a physical check of a mortgage statement and an electronic check of the same
mortgage account come from the same source, so one does not corroborate the
other.
3.74 Some clients may object to providing evidence of identity. It may be
helpful to explain the reason for requiring evidence of identity in the
initial interview or client care letter. More people in the UK are now used
to being asked for evidence of identity by their bank or building society,
so it will be increasingly rare to find a client who objects to such a
request from a solicitor. If a client is unwilling to provide evidence it
will be for the solicitor to assess whether this in itself is a cause for
concern.
Copying and certifying original identification documents
3.75 As already mentioned, usually you should keep a printed or other copy
of any evidence of identification obtained as you may be required to produce
the evidence in the future. It may be helpful to make a note on the retained
copy as to when the original document was seen and by whom. If reliance is
being placed on copies provided by others these should be certified.
3.76 Such a copy may be made in several ways, including fax copying,
photocopying, scanning, filming and reproduction in any other medium,
including the placing of materials on the Internet.
3.77 Certified copies of original identification evidence should be made by
checking the copy against the original and then signing and dating the copy
as a true copy of the original. In the case of photographic evidence of an
individual's identity the person certifying should confirm that the
individual is the person shown in the photograph. When copying a passport or
national identity card, only the personal details pages need to be copied
and kept as evidence.
3.78 If the client cannot meet you to produce the original identification
document, you should think carefully before asking the client to send
valuable personal identity documents, such as passports, driving licences
and identity cards by normal post because of the dangers of interception and
fraud. These dangers can even exist with registered or other guaranteed
postal services. The client should be warned of the dangers and given a
choice as to another method. You should arrange an appointment when the
client can produce the documents required or, if you are not able to meet
the client, you should follow the guidance in paragraphs 3.90 to 3.94 below.
3.79 The HMSO guidance note no. 20 dated 5 December 2002 confirms that
copies of the personal details page of a UK passport may be made for the
purposes of record keeping by the following persons only:
(a) the holder of the passport
(b) notaries, solicitors, UK government departments and British consulates;
(c) financial institutions and other persons and firms who are subject to
the ML Regulations 2003; and
(d) any person or firm for the purpose of certifying that identification
checks have been made in accordance with the ML Regulations 2003.
3.80 The guidance says that copies must be in black and white only so that
they cannot be mistaken for a real passport page. Copying for these purposes
includes photocopying, scanning, filming, reproduction in any other medium,
including placing material on the Internet. The original document is the
evidence of identity. The photocopy of the original is used to record and
certify that identification checks have been made. There is no need to apply
for a licence or pay a fee to take such copies.

Individuals
3.81 In general, an individual's identity is made up of both full name and
current address, including the postcode where available and in most cases
you should obtain satisfactory evidence in relation to both name and
address, and a combination of checks should be carried out. Where an EEA
member state identity card is produced showing name, address, and with a
photograph this may be accepted as satisfactory evidence without further
corroboration. The previous address should be confirmed if the client has
moved recently.
3.82 Where evidence of identity is required in relation to an individual,
and that individual is known to a solicitor or qualified EEA or US lawyer
who confirms in writing (a) that s/he has known the individual for over two
years and (b) the individual's private or trading address, then no further
evidence of identity is usually required, unless there are circumstances
which increase the risk.
3.83 Where you are reasonably satisfied that an individual is nationally or
internationally known a record of identification can include a file note of
your satisfaction about identity, usually including an address.
Individuals: documentary evidence of personal identity: UK residents
3.84 The following is a list of examples of suitable documentary evidence of
name for UK resident private individuals. You should be satisfied that any
documents offered are originals to guard against forged or counterfeit
documents and that photographs, if any, provide a likeness to the client:
current signed passport;

*EEA member state identity card (which can also be used as evidence of
address if it gives this);

*cheque drawn on an account in the name of the client with a bank in the UK
or EEA;

*residence permit issued by Home Office to EEA nationals on sight of own
country passport;

*current UK or EEA photo-card driving licence;

*current full UK driving licence- old-style provisional driving licences
should not be accepted;

*benefit book or original notification letter from the Benefits Agency
confirming the right to benefits;

*photographic registration cards for self-employed individuals and
partnerships in the construction industry C1S4 (the card does not contain an
issue or expiry date and is renewed only if the individual's appearance
changes dramatically);

*firearms or shotgun certificate;

*national identity card containing a photograph of the client; and

*an entry in a local or national telephone directory confirming name and
address.


.

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