Re: Shooting Policem and and Death Penalty


"AlanG" <invalid@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:oobmo1t8msgde9587kktu2i3dg6per4cs4@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:20:04 -0000, "Peter McLelland"
> <peter.mclelland@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> >"AlanG" <invalid@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >news:fjcko1hdhnuf85fjmqop0mu69rc13khg2d@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:03:43 +0000, Alex Heney <me8@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:01:29 +0000, "Uno Hoo!"
> >> ><kevlunn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Fenris Wolf wrote:
> >> >>> In article <dm4ml3$jjv$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Uno Hoo!
> >> >>> <kevlunn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>I think Rifleman wants to see free availability of handguns to
anyone
> >who
> >> >>>>wants them - not just members of gun clubs etc. He believes that
the
> >> >>>>public
> >> >>>>have a right to be able to protect themselves and believes that
> >widespread
> >> >>>>public ownership of firearms would reduce violent armed crime. That
is
> >how
> >> >>>>I
> >> >>>>understand his stance. He can correct me if I'm wrong.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I think that is a perfectly reasonable stance to take.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The Dunblane example is being discussed in part of this thread, so
> >let's
> >> >>> consider what a difference members of the public being armed would
> >have
> >> >>> made in the other example that has been quoted, the Hungerford
case.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Michael Ryan was exposed and vulnerable in several instances, at
the
> >> >>> garage where he was taking pot shots at the owners and customers,
as
> >he
> >> >>> walked down the street, it would have taken just one armed citizen
to
> >> >>> put an end to the indiscriminate killing spree.
> >> >>
> >> >>If all members of the public had free access to firearms (like they
do
> >> >>in the US) - would that result in fewer murders or more murders?
There
> >> >>is only one possible answer.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Rubbish.
> >> >
> >> >There are three possible answers, and no realistic way to judge which
> >> >is the likeliest.
> >> >
> >> >It could result in more murders, less murders, or make no measurable
> >> >difference.
> >> >
> >> >Personally, I think the last is the most likely, but as I say, there
> >> >is no way to be sure.
> >>
> >> Or it could be any of those 3 options plus less other crime.
> >>
> >> Personally I believe there would be an increase in murder at first
> >> then a decrease back to what we had prior to the early 50s. But if the
> >> 1953 offensive weapons laws were repealed along with later associated
> >> legislation I think there would be an immediate decrease in home
> >> invasions and shop robberies. Certainly the hold up of the travel
> >> agency in Bradford may have had a different ending if the agency had
> >> an armed guard.
> >
> >One impact of widely held fire arms would be the need for most if not all
of
> >the police force to be armed,
>
> Why?
> There was no need for an armed police force when we had the right to
> own guns for self defence. Not even when it was quite legal to carry a
> loaded gun in public.

Just wait for a couple of cops to be gunned down whilstdealing with
domestics that have gone bad. If guns were available at ADSA US style the
police would have to assume that every incident was potentially a fire arms
incident. Thus all polciepersons would have to be armed, probably traffic
wardens too.
>
> > every domestic immediately becomes a potential
> >fire arms incident for example. Even more criminals would be armed so
almost
> >certainly as many criminals are already wiling to kill, the number of the
> >general public killed in armed robbery would rise.
>
> Possibly. Or possibly not.
> I believe honest law abiding people outnumber criminals.

So how does that stop more criminals being armed. I also believe that the
criminals in this country are vastly outnumbered by the honest Joe's, but
give the honest Joes guns and the criminals will not wait to see how it
goes, they will get toooled up as fast as they can. As will the CHAVs who
hang arround most of our estates, and once you have a gun and trouble starts
it gets used.
> >
> >If the travel agent had had an armed guard he would now be dead, but on
the
>
> If the travel agent had an armed guard it is more probable the robbers
> would be dead.

The greates fable of the gun lobby. Any crook knowing the victim may be
armed will act accordingly, our poor guard will get the first bullet.
>
> >upside perhaps no police officer would have been shot because they would
> >have approached the incident believing fire arms would be involved.
> >
> Indeed

I think the general additional loss of life is probably a bad trade for the
policewoman's life, sad though her death is.

If you want to see how it will go just look at the rise in knife crime in
Scotland as the custom of carrying knives has risen. More knives beget moiré
knives and the result is more stabbings.

Peter


.

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