Re: Council tax U-turn



Adam Gray wrote:
"Mike Drew" <Mike.Drew@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:InH5MG.8Mt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx


You may have operated the old system corruptly but there was nothing inherent in the old system that made it corrupt.


Not true. The old system didn't even recognise the existence of political parties in local government. Now putting aside whether parties should or should not be part of local government, not to acknowledge that parties are an absolutely fundamental part of the political operation of councils is inherently archaic.

And this is fundamental: because if the system operated in reality as it does in theory then you're right, there wouldn't be anything inherent in it that would make it fail, because councillors would all be equal, there would be no pre-meetings to ensure a party's viewpoint got articulated and, ideally, implemented, there would be no whip to implement the agenda councillors had been elected on, in fact in a system of independent councillors voters by and large wouldn't know the policy positions their councillors would be taking.

The whip in Councils have no real power - I know it is different in the Labour Party but Lib Dems recognise that Councillors have to follow their own concience and the party's view is only of persuasive power.


You clearly don't believe in a lot of that way of operating because if you did you wouldn't be a Liberal Democrat councillor, seeking to implement whatever daft, cobbled-together, contradictory philosophy you believe in.


The purpose of poliitcal groups is to share expertise so that not everyone has to fully understand every issue. An individual councillor trusts a colleague from his group to arrive at the same conclusions that he/she would if they had considered the issue in detail. If they have a different view having given the issue their full consideration they they should vote differently.


Under the current system the Executive member does not have to listen to any alternative argument or proposals.


Again not true. Under the system *you have* they may not, but there was nothing in the legislation to stop you creating a far more rigorous scrutiny process.

But the scrutiny can only ask the Executive member look at the issue again. They have absolutely no requirement to change their mind. This fact alone demotivate scrutiny.



We do have a very open and accessible Cabinet. All meeting are held in public and anyone either a member of the Council or member of the public may address the cabinet on the subject under discussion. This was the case when we had overall control as well now under an all party administration


Does your cabinet (or a political group therein, or your group) have a pre-meeting that is secret?

I believe all the groups have pre meetings - although how well attended I am not sure. The fact that they can makes the system no better than the old system.


Adam


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