Re: Death Penalty
- From: Tim Fitzmaurice <tjf11@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:25:20 +0000
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, H. Barker wrote:
How do people feel about XP penalties, hell any kind of penalties, on the death of a PC?
I dislike XP penalties on that specific character, myself, in fact with 1st Ed AD&D I defined it as an experience and so it gained XP (I think I swiped that form a Dragon Mag article, maybe a White Dwarf one). There are ways to make death an experience that you wish to avoid. One is a limit on ressurection type effects, either on the number of times or something similar, so the countdown starts sufficiently, another it target other areas of the character that may be more 'realistic' such as attributes - although for my preference that tends to work only if attributes are secondary (eg level based systems), and of course with the right group and milieu roleplay penalties can be severe enough (visible mystic marks etc).
However the above is assuming that you have a particular character coming back - rather than generate a new character.
You are playing a character in a group and your guy dies. The system you are using is written such that XPs are used to buy stats, skills and abilities.
Your GM works out your new XPs based upon your old XPs minus a small amount for having died. Ergo you start with less XPs than the rest of your group.
I'm sure I've seen this method of generating PCs before, but obviously now I want to actually remember one I cannot.
Amazing Engine does this with its 'character core' method although you do have to invest XPs in it.
My question(s) are:
Do you lot all think this is a good practice generally? Should dying, something often out of your players hands, carry a penalty? I can see arguments for both sides.
Dying sometimes is sheer bad luck, sometimes it extremely good roleplaying, sometimes its landed on you by the group so its not your actions that get you the chop. Sometimes of course its because you were bloody stupid :)
Its already been pointed out that there are plenty of roleplaying losses in a permanent character death, there are mechnical benefits too as you can tune your new character to avoid redundant skills and abilities should you so wish, or indeed to include them, or to fit into a missing slot in the group, or to play some really nice idea you had 3 sessions back but doesnt fit your old character.
Add to this the effect of losing XP standing on the next character will vary from system to system and game to game, then the answer I would say is that - 'No, this is not good practise generally, but because there is no general rule rather than that the idea can have no merit', therefore each game/group/system needs to decide what is good for it at the time.
There are losses to any character death and possible light at the end of the tunnel as well.
On the one hand if death has no penalty where is the incentive to stay alive?
Depends if that character comes back or not, if not then there is a loss. Depends on how much the character lives for the player and how much its a set of numbers - again we are back to the 'depends on your group - not helpful I know but I feel its the best answer'
On the other hand if death carries a penalty and you are creating a new PC for the group and you start on a slightly lower footing than your compadres, doesn't that wreck your incentive to play?
Depends on how much behind - are you unable to function now, then thats too much IMO. Absolute power level doesnt define a character's mechanical utility though. As I mentioned above the tuneabilty of a chracter knowing the other characters stats ca help the mechanical player, those with more roleplaying aims will want to be functional but may not be min maxing the character anyway so small differences imposed may not be cared about.
Again as mentioned, one very common mechanism is the 'come in at or close to the bootom of the group - also group vs individual XP makes a difference. Group XP in this case makes it more difficult for an individual to catch up. Individual XP allows you to pull up th elaggers (if they deserve it). Level based XP with increasing cost a la DnD does sort of work round this issue.
I'm personally all about having fun and concentrating on plot and character development without relying too heavily on the rules, but this has almost started a civil war in the group. For the sake of interest if nothing else I wanted to see what you chaps thought.
Keep the players talking, aim for fairness, if necessary and you have to change things appeal to the players who are most likely to be flexible to be so to keep the game going and if necessary turn a blind eye to a bit of favouristism if you think that that will work...if all the above fail to get a resolution then there may be a problem.
Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 .
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