Re: Nuclear back on

In message <1147903215.065818.74760@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, alexterrell@xxxxxxxxx writes

John Beardmore wrote:

>>
>> Local generation coupled to district heating seems like to best bet to
>> me. Huge increase in the efficiency of primary fuel use !
>>
>Why stop at the municipal level.

I'm not suggesting that we should stop there, rather that given most of
the public don't yet want to be their own power station, that it is
where we should start.

That depends on the technology. At the moment, if I have a gas boiler
which as a byproduct can generate 5KW on demand, there is no easy
mechanism to sell it to the grid.

Think you're wrong about that. There seem to be quite a few people putting a few kW of wind power back in anyway, and Whispergen, Microgen etc are on the way which will completely change expectations about microgeneration even if in some respects the product specs aren't earth shaking...


And no pricing mechanism. If my gas costs me 2p/KWHr, - if I want
heating, I'd be prepared to sell at about 2.5 - 3p per KWhr. If I don't
want heating it would be 6-9p.

And would may appalling use of primary fuel ! Don't go there...


All this needs broadband connected
boilers,

Maybe.


web preferences pages, an auctioning processs (because my
neigbour might sell at 2.4p). Where's the progress on this?

Not sure that it need be so elaborate to be honest.

To start with, I'd be pleased to generate only when heat is required, and to have BG buy any excess for a flat rate and aggregate any ROCs they can.


> Electricity is cheaper to move than
>Hot Water so put the generator where the heat is needed - in the home /
>office / shop / factory.

Then you get into the classic CHP design problem of what to do with the
heat.

In summer yes. But you almost always have that problem.

So just do it in winter. To my mind, home CHP is about getting better value from fossil fuel you have to burn to stay warm. It's not about replacing centralised plant with something less efficient !


See above, but in Winter, you want to sell electricity when you want
heat.

If you don't use it all which you might much of the time.


In summer, you only sell electricty when the electricity comapany
needs to buy. In cold climates where air con doesn't dominate, this
model works really well.

If they ever need to buy, I suspect something will have gone badly wrong.


>Future scenario:
>1/3 nuclear

Seems a bit on the high side.

1GW reactor on each existing site, > 1/3.

Not what I would choose.


>1/3 renewable

Seems a bit on the low side.

Add in a Severn Barrage, and hope for wave power.

And tide stream and domestic renewables.


>1/3 local generation (which provides all the spare capacity needed to
>support variations in the renewables, and in winter is a by product of
>heating)

I was rather hoping that a lot of the local generation would be
renewable too.

Gas is a lot more convenient.

But not remotely sustainable unless it's hydrogen.


I'd go for gas for domestic generation,
and biomass for municipal or farm generation. So a chunk of the 1/3
could be renewable.

Got to be more in the long term.


And you wouldn't want to generating with a classic CHP plant, never mind
a Whispergen unless you needed the heat. It's just not viable, and less
efficient than centralised power generation.

In summer, I'd buy electricity. In winter, I'd make my own. But if the
distributor really needs it, because Sizewell is being refuelled, and
the Thames Array has no Wind, then I'll sell it to the distributor.

In dire emergency...


There is the tri-generation option of course, but how much cooling do
you actually need ?

Lost me there? Gas power to power my air con? Better to buy the
electricity.

One thing you can do with waste heat is set up an absorption chiller plant. The COP ain't great, but it's better value than traditional power plant throwing away the heat and using electricity to drive air con, so in cities your _local_ generation plant can supply district hot water, district cold water, and electricity, hence tri-generation. Already being rolled out in London in a partnership between EDF and the GLA I believe !


Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
.

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