Re: True racism

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:39:07 +0000, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <rbtqn45suk1e8o66ce0up3adef0b30lt8i@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:33:31 +0000, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <b9qpn4t4u7grvjmt2d39a5h6nskapj3dl2@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:05:10 +0000, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <p1bpn45qdqpu2p3ffea07gsgmmg73pk8in@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:54:54 +0000, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <1q5pn41n53f4hiriadb5rpcuf4lo964to2@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes


So are you saying that members of the grey squirrel species do not
belong to any race?

Yes or no please.

Have you ever come across the phrase "grey squirrel race"? No, I thought
not.

You've just said you have come across five sub species in the states
and if as you say they're races then there must be grey squirrel
races.

But you are trying to say that there is a grey squirrel *race*,
singular, which is the same as the grey squirrel *species*. There isn't.

No I'm not. That's what you were trying to say I was saying and you
got yourself in a confused mess.

The confusion is all yours which has led you to firstly trying to
compare the cull of the grey squirrel with what the Nazis did to the
Jews and secondly trying to call it racism, e.g.:

No Malcolm. Firstly, Hitler and his thugs were killing the Jews and
other minority groups because they saw them as not indigenous to their
country and unfit to live alongside the Aryans and in particular they
were critical of the Jew's ability to succeed. This is exactly the
same principle that conservationists use against wildlife they don't
want.

Of course it isn't. Only a diseased mind could find a similarity between
the two.


Of course it is. The disease in the minds of those who adopt the same
principles against wildlife as Hitler and his thugs did against
humans.


The idea that anyone should pick and choose what wildlife lives
where, is abhorrent. Wildlife populations or races

Stop right there. The two words "population" and "races" are NOT
synonyms and therefore cannot be linked as you are trying to do.

Do please try to understand what I have written. I said populations
or races, which you dishonestly changed to populations and races.

Your
determination to call the culling grey squirrels "racist" has led you
into making ridiculous claims.


Not so. What is taking place is discrimination against one race of
squirrel to favour another.

are parallel to
our own and should be respected as part of nature, not just to be
slaughtered because we take a fancy to other populations or races and
favour them. Just like Hitler did within his own race.

An animal population is NOT a race.

I never said it was. However, animals within a population or even a
whole population of animals can belong to a race.

Please do at least try to get that
into your head so that you stop making a fool of yourself with this
comparison.


I haven't made that comparison.

You're making a fool of yourself.



"However, the charge of racism is entirely appropriate against those who
stir up hatred against other races that are undeniably parallel to our
own. These races include members of animal species not considered
worthy of being allowed to live out their lives free of persecution from
those who call themselves conservationists.
The condemnation and racial discrimination of the grey squirrel is a
prime example."

There is only one "race" of humans, as we all belong to one subspecies,
so the Nazis were killing their own kind.

You now seem to be changing your tune. I said that at the beginning
and it was disputed it on the grounds that it was a colloquialism by
JM. Are you disagreeing with him in this matter?

Who is JM?

I thought you could have worked that out. JMH

Are you disagreeing with him in this matter?


There are no "other races"
that include "members of animal species" (a completely meaningless
phrase, by the way), as you claim.

Of course there are races of animals other than humans. You have said
yourself there are five races of grey squirrel in America.

___________

From Wikipedia

In biology, a race is any inbreeding group, including taxonomic
subgroups such as subspecies, taxonomically subordinate to a species
and superordinate to a subrace and marked by a pre-determined profile
of latent factors of hereditary traits.

Examples of race include:

The Key lime and the Mexican lime, both of species Citrus x
aurantifolia. The Mexican lime has a thicker skin and darker green
color.
The African Wildcat (Felis silvestris lybicus) and the domestic cat
(Felis silvestris catus).
The Western honey bee is divided into several honey bee races

Well done, Angus. Yes, I said there were 5 or 6 races of the grey
squirrel, but that does NOT mean that there is a squirrel "race" in the
sense you are trying to use the word.


The squirrels in the UK will belong to a race and they're being
slaughtered to promote another "race" of squirrels.


_____________

There are millions of species of
animals and plants none of which belong to the same species as humans

I can't believe you're such a clever scientist that you managed to
work that out.:-))

and none of which can be called a "race" in the way that you are trying
to do. The only "races" that exist in the animal kingdom are subspecies.

No, it includes subspecies. See the first sentence from Wikipedia and
if you don't believe that look up "race" in the SOED. You'll see it
covers animals other than humans.

Duh! You are deliberately trying to pervert the meanings of words. I
seem to recall a court case that you lost.......

Are you saying the first sentence in the Wikipedia is wrong?

To remind you it was;

"In biology, a race is any inbreeding group, including taxonomic
subgroups such as subspecies, taxonomically subordinate to a species
and superordinate to a subrace and marked by a pre-determined profile
of latent factors of hereditary traits".

Note: "any interbreeding group".



There is no "race" of squirrels or deer or anything else. I note you
haven't denied that no-one refers to the "squirrel race" in the way that
they do to the "human race", and so your attempt to call killing animals
"racism" is both a linguistic and biological nonsense.

Perhaps it's time that people did see them as "races"

Only so that you can completely wrongly claim that culling grey
squirrels is "racism". Your attempts to pervert the meanings of words
knows no bounds :-(


Of course it's racism. The killing of members of one race to promote
members of another race is racism.


- which they are
- and, with regard to red squirrels, those introduced to this country
are of a different race to those you claim were "native".

Absolute nonsense.

Not at all. The may be the same species but they are a different
race.

The red squirrel in the UK is the native *species*
that has been in the UK since the last ice age.

You haven't evidence of that.

You have produced not
one jot of evidence to support your claim that it is otherwise.


You're the one that says it's native by your criterion. You should
supply the evidence.


To slaughter members of one race to favour members of another race is
an act of racism.

And that what the conservation thugs are doing.

No-one in conservation is killing "one race" to favour "another race".

Of course they are. The face the races belong to a different species
is incidental.

The grey squirrel in the UK is a non-native invasive *species* and it is
being culled to save a native *species* from extinction. Your attempt to
call this "racism" is utter nonsense.


Not in the slightest.

I get the impression you don't like the idea but it is a fact that
conservationists are killing members of one race to promote members of
another.

That's racism in its worst form.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Excellent news
    ... Hitler acted against his own species and aimed to wipe ... >>>conservation aims to destroy EVERY individual from a race. ... >gave all animals for human use. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: True racism
    ... You've just said you have come across five sub species in the states ... which is the same as the grey squirrel *species*. ... Just like Hitler did within his own race. ... Of course there are races of animals other than humans. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: It the M1 part of nature?
    ... fact remains that your claim that "logically, any species or race should be regarded as native to where ... Angus you really do have to try to learn that there are different sorts of vocabulary etc. for animals as opposed to humans. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: True racism
    ... The answer is that it cannot be a race. ... I don't believe that a species can not be a race as well. ... Each of those is a race or subspecies of the species Sciurus ... The grey squirrel in the UK belongs to the species Sciurius ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: When did human races split from one another?
    ... its practical usefulness based on the fact that the boundaries ... for race was not my idea. ... This makes then the same species. ... Have have a very keen knowledge of biology and genetics. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
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