Re: Government support for Scottish private forestry

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:49:17 -0800 (PST), h.lantus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
wrote:

On 28 Dec, 23:14, amacmil...@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:41:35 -0800 (PST), h.lan...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
wrote:

Sheep are an agricultural product and eaten.

Is that meant to be a ground shaking revelation?    Obviously you
think people don't know that :-))  

Well you seemed to have overlooked it.

Not relevant.

Of course it is relevant.  If you plant trees on sheep walks then you
are removing land from producing food.  You have very clearly
condemned planting trees on land which could be producing food.

Absolutely, on quality farmland like the Woodland Trust are doing.


It would appear that you are either suggesting sheep are reared on
quality agricultural land when displaced by trees or we lose that food
(sheep) in favour of uneconomic home grown timber. Which do you mean?


It seems you can't understand plain English.


As you don't like blanket
statements and feel there is much rough ground not used as sheep walks
etc give me a specific piece of land of reasonable area that you know
to be unused by agriculture.

I know Scotland Wales the Peninnes and the Lakes quite well so I don't
mind which example you use.  DO please remember however to be
economical it needs to be quite large.

Look them up yourself.  There's stacks of areas around.  

Incorrect.

If you say that is incorrect please provide the evidence.  After all
you tell me to do that when I say something is incorrect.

I am waiting for you to provide the evidence that there are "stacks of
areas around". It is your point. However I can't name a single place
in any upland area suitable for trees which isn't already used for
sheep. Asd you also don't seem to be able to I feel "Incorrect" is
about the only answer I can give. Sorry.


See above.


So by your own argument please produce your evidence.

See above I have been visiting the upland areas of the UK all my life
(at first taken by my parents) and I am unable to name a single area
which could be given over to trees without displacing some animal used
for food. It appears you are unable to either.


See above.


As I have pointed out I know the uplands of the UK well.
I know of nowhere which isn't being used for running sheep.  You say
there are a lot so to give your argument a basis of fact.  Name one.
I will appreciate that if you don't it is because you don't know one.

See above.



If you haven't got the message that I don't indulge in your nonsense
by now - then it's a reflection of your low intelligence.

You may consider asking you to support an obviously wrong statement
nonsense.  However it isn't.  Your statement is wrong you can't
support it and haven't the guts to admit it.

See above.

Yet again you use the pathetic see above in pretence that something
above answers the point. When in reality it means you can't cope.
Fair enough.


I use it because I do not wish to repeat myself endlessly.





I couldn't care less what you think is low intelligence to be honest
you don't show enough to be a judge.  If asking somebody to support
their assertions is low intelligence then I am proud to be told I have
low intelligence.  You seem to think that because you say something
everybody has to take it as the irrefutable truth.  This is not so and
I will continue to challenge you on points which are wrong if for no
other reason than to make sure casual readers and lurkers know your
statements are unsupportable.

Ho Ho.  That's your previous argument working against you.  What a
dummy you really are.  Try and be consistent :-)))))))



So resort to abuse as much as you like and don't try the lie that you
give what you get.  Every example of abuse shows the weakness of your
position.

Not it doesn't.  The cap of being a dummy fits you very well.



Are you sure there is enough land even if you take in the sheep runs
to make UK 100% self sufficient?

There's plenty of rough land not used by sheep.

**IF** there is you will have no trouble pointing me towards it will
you.  :-)))))

See above :-))))

Again you fail to simply confirm your point. If it is a question of
saving time YES or NO would have been faster. What you mean is I
can't confirm the point so will try to avoid it. Fair enough.


See above.



The statement doesn't answer the clear question.  I will repeat it for
you.

Are you sure there is enough land even if you take in the sheep runs
to make UK 100% self sufficient?

See above.

Again you fail to simply confirm your point. If it is a question of
saving time YES or NO would have been faster. What you mean is I
can't confirm the point so will try to avoid it. Fair enough.


See above.



That does not answer the question.  Are you absolutely certain that
iff all this unused rough ground were planted it would supply 100% of
the UK timber needs.

Hillsides all over the place that would do for that.

So if there are so many why are you so coy in naming one which isn't
used for sheep?

I note you are avoiding the question again. Surely not because you
can't answer it?


See above.



I not you aren't prepared to state categorically that there is enough
land to economically supply all the UKs timber needs.

Why not?

I have already explained that to you.

No you haven't you are yet again trying to hide behind a pretence of
having answered. You can't name a single reasonably sized area which
could be used for trees and not displace some agricultural enterprise.



See above.



Please also state if you feel it is in big enough blocks close enough
together to be worked and provide timber more cheaply than imported
timber.

Why not?  There'll be people crawling for jobs in the near future.  

That doesn't cover the distances the small amounts of wood will need
to be hauled from scattered plots the cost of getting extraction
machinery into a small isolated plot etc.  Would you please address
the question in detail?

Scattered locations for growing timber are the best options.  They
provide jobs for rural communities and can serve a local market.

A couple of points you skim over quickly. Firstly it would be many
years before they provided much in the way of employment.


That's the fault of government which needs to be rectified.


Second you carefully avoid the damage to the environment and the
extreme costs of carting the tools and equipment for timber extraction
round the country from one tiny block to another. Strange when you
keep harping on about others damaging the environment.


Less than that of cutting and hauling timber from abroad.




Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Government support for Scottish private forestry
    ... condemned planting trees on land which could be producing food. ... in favour of uneconomic home grown timber. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: Things that could help manufacturing.....
    ... come to protest the cutting of trees don't live here. ... They only harvest timber on private land now which isn't enough ...
    (alt.machines.cnc)
  • Re: Things that could help manufacturing.....
    ... come to protest the cutting of trees don't live here. ... They only harvest timber on private land now which isn't enough ...
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  • Re: OT: 16 Children
    ... As it happens most of our land is low, swampy, and would be unbuildable. ... Not that any of that matters because we are paying our own way, using our trees for heat and keeping the trees to help the environment. ... if your land were cleared (and "not" used for producing food) I wonder how many homes could be built to house how many children in better conditions than they are now living. ... I believe wars and famine are caused by greedy people who want land that doesn't belong to them, causing the rightful residents to flee for their lives and not able to grow food on which to live. ...
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  • Re: Government support for Scottish private forestry
    ... damaging impact of importing timber from abroad. ... Why is that when countries in Scandinavia, ... Planting native trees is not "free trade". ... It's supported by numerous grants. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
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