Re: No room for tolerance in 17200 acres

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:39:23 -0700, "John M."
<john_howard_morgan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 22, 10:06 am, amacmil...@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 15:36:29 +0100, Malcolm





<Malc...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <8s5af3tlr3knu53s80h5ebgreqcuujh...@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil...@xxxxxxx writes

Angela Williams of the Knoydart Foundation only seems to tell part of
the story when she says, "Their numbers stayed stable for many years
but, over the past few years, circumstances have conspired and the
number has grown rapidly"
<snip>
The population on the whole of Knoydart has certainly not been stable -
it has increased from 3 to 70 in 25 years.

Are you saying that Angela Williams is lying?

It seems to me that he is confirming what Ms. Williams said, if you
read the quote above Malcolm's statement.


It would seem you're wrong (again). And I'm quite sure you don't
understand why. Think again.

As you will be well aware, young trees are much desired as food by
goats. It seems sensible to evict them, using fences one assumes, which
is exactly what you have always advocated when trying to separate
grazing deer from trees.

But better not to plant trees where there were resident goats.

Why, exactly. Do you think it better to have goats rather than trees?
Or would it be a better idea to shoot the goats, as is done with deer
that browse on young trees?

Deer shouldn't be shot either. You consider yourself free to consume
whatever you want and in what quantity you feel like, yet you would
deny other species the same right to eat to survive under penalty of
death. Typical selfish attitude.



Once forced out
of their closed habitat the goat population expanded due to increased
resources, as happens with all mammals.

When were the goats "forced out" of the gorge"? Were all the goats on
the estate confined to the gorge and if so how? And what evidence do you
have that the population has expanded since they were "forced out" as
opposed to increasing before that?

I have been told they stayed in the gorge.

I have been told the moon is made of green cheese. Luckily for me, I
didn't believe it - I love green cheese and might well have injured
myself trying to make my way there.

<snip>

By someone who knows the area:

"Before about 1995 I do not recall seeing any goats on open ground.
They were present, and as far as I know had been for decades, in a
large gorge above Loch na Sealga below An Teallach. They didn't to
seem to ever come out of this gorge. Then, in about 1995 the gorge was
fenced off to enable the regeration of the woodland that still existed
there. In the process I surmise that the goats were driven out of the
gorge (before the fence was closed), out on to the open hill. The have
now adapted to this environment and are multiplying, and in the
process threatening numerous other patches of woodland that previously
they had never threatened"



It seems a pity that the people of Knoydart fuelled by tourist
organisations posing as conservationists might be persuaded to kill
these animals on an estate of 17200 acres where it seems there is no
room for tolerance and even less room for a few goats.

The number is not "a few", Angus, it is 70.

70 is a few.

What about 71? 72? 73?......Where do you suppose 'many' begins?


One goat to 245 acres can't be many. Over a period we have had three
goat living successfully in about an acre.

And if they continue
increasing at the present rate, in only 5 years time numbers will have
doubled, and in 10 years time there will be over 300.

So what, there's plenty of room for them.

You should read up on "exponentials" (A standard encyclopedia ref.
will do the trick)

"Exponential" is too big a word for you :-))


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: No room for tolerance in 17200 acres
    ... But better not to plant trees where there were resident goats. ... I have been told they stayed in the gorge. ... then the very recent annual rate of increase must be considerably higher ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: No room for tolerance in 17200 acres
    ... Angela Williams of the Knoydart Foundation only seems to tell part of ... decided to evict the goats from a gorge, ... What evidence do you have that the population in the gorge "had been ... But better not to plant trees where there were resident goats. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: No room for tolerance in 17200 acres
    ... But better not to plant trees where there were resident goats. ... I have been told they stayed in the gorge. ... as happens with all mammals." ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: No room for tolerance in 17200 acres
    ... But better not to plant trees where there were resident goats. ... I have been told they stayed in the gorge. ... I wonder if Angus understands basic population dynamics..... ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: No room for tolerance in 17200 acres
    ... But better not to plant trees where there were resident goats. ... I have been told they stayed in the gorge. ... I wonder if Angus understands basic population dynamics..... ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)