Re: HARLEQUIN LADYBIRD.

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:54:10 +0100, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <vq39235v085r6l6n4tomajuq81gacsvn5a@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:41:43 +0100, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <7is723lpioipufgnu3ltr11298vmu5s1m4@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:32:44 +0100, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <gmt62311f4tkhmep1blr31kha63nbm258l@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:16:02 +0100, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <mt8623h5l6a2sev01c8bq7000f4d348knh@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:53:06 +0100, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <lpu423pvn9div5a9k2rbv3uoro979d1rni@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:14:59 +0100, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


snip to keep message reasonably short.



That's fine by me if that's the only type of snipping you do - across
the board and early in the thread.

There are no harlequin ladybirds in Scotland yet, and if people like
Brin are successful in locating and controlling them, there won't be,
which will be a tremendous success story. And if it costs
money, then it
will be money very well spent in saving our indigenous
species. On past
performance, presumably you would be happy to see the UK's ladybirds
destroyed by this alien invader.


Thought so! I knew there'd be someone screwing money out of it
somewhere.

And your evidence is?

On past performances, they're hardly going to pay for locating and
controlling the HL themselves and nobody seems to have stopped its
progress elsewhere.

And you call that "evidence"?

Of course it is.

No. "evidence" would be if you actually knew that some money had been
paid out for the purpose. Do you?


Money has been paid out for similar schemes. That's why I said was he
after grants.

But when you said you "knew" there would be someone obtaining money for
it, you actually didn't *know*, did you?

I know on past performance that there will be someone screwing money
out of it.

But that's not what you said, is it? You stated, unambiguously, that you
"knew".


Pedant :-)

As someone else said.







As you haven't responded to my last point, can everyone reading your
posts on this subject take it that you would be happy to see the UK's
ladybirds destroyed by this alien invader?

Happy is the wrong word.

So what is the right word? What do you actually feel about seeing an
alien invader destroying the UK's many species of ladybirds?
Content, indifferent, dismayed?


A species is not a living being. Species come and go. Individuals
are what you kill.

And if you kill all the individuals of a species, the species
disappears.

But I'm not suggesting you kill any individuals - quite the opposite.

I'm not killing any individual ladybirds, but this alien invader is.

But that's not "you" or me - if you're so fussy about language.


No response. Little wonder :-))


Are
you happy, content, indifferent, dismayed that this is happening?


I am concerned about the killing of any individual by humans. We
don't own them.

It seems that answering my question is too difficult for you. I asked
you whether you are happy, content, indifferent, dismayed that an alien
invasive ladybird is killing our indigenous ones. Telling me that you
are concerned about killing of any individual by humans doesn't answer
my question, does it?

Try again.

I don't need to I have told you my position already.


If a species "goes", that species can't "come" again.

Species go extinct. New species can come along. Are you saying that
doesn't happen?

Are you claiming that an extinct species can be recreated?


Read what I wrote.

I did. You appear to be indifferent about extinctions.


Where did I claim species can be recreated?

Is this just another of your sloppy science assumptions?




Or
don't you believe the great auk is extinct?

Of course it is.

And are you happy, content, indifferent, dismayed, that it is?

None of them. Some species go extinct - that happens.

You seem to be indifferent about extinctions and very obviously not
prepared to try and prevent them.


Not by killing individuals.




But like the grey squirrels it would be a
job for life to "control" them and there would be little or no end to
it.

The "end to it" if nothing were done would be the extinction of the red
squirrel. Would you be happy/content/indifferent/dismayed to see that
happen?


A species is not a living being. Species come and go. Individuals
are what you kill.

So you've said, but you're actually just wriggling around trying not to
say what you feel about the extinction of all the individuals of several
species of ladybirds or all the red squirrels in Scotland. Would you be
happy/content/indifferent/dismayed to see that happen?


If it happens, it happens. What's the alternative? What will you do
to stop the grey squirrels? Shoot and trap them forever?

The alternative is to prevent the extinction, but whatever means are
found the most effective.

You're not answering the question. Try again.

Read what I wrote.



So what is the most effective?




Of course this suits sloppy science and their quest for nice
little earners for life.

I suppose counting birds is yours :-))

Your suppositions about me, are as ever, wrong.

So you do it for nothing? Pity you can't extend that generosity to
SNH as a volunteer of your services.

As I've said, if you undertake regular voluntary work in the NP then
I'll seriously consider offering my services voluntarily to SNH.


But I've refused because I don't believe in the NP.

Well, there you go then.

Exactly.

My offer still stands, though.


You've said people volunteer in what they believe in. Does this mean
you don't believe in SNH's work?

Of course. Are you claiming I don't do things voluntarily for them?


So why not volunteer you services for which you get paid £271 a day +
expenses?

I will, if you will commit to regular volunteering in the NP.

Nothing to do with it. You obviously don't believe enough in SNH to
forfeit your paid services.




All your huffing and puffing about killing hedgehogs eventually came
to nothing.

No, wrong, as usual.


Not at all. They've stopped killing them.

Not necessarily. The translocation now being undertaken will be
monitored to see what happens. Past translocations have led to mortality
of the translocated animals *and* animals living where the translocated
ones were released.

SNH have stopped killing them in spite of your duff advice.

Read what I wrote in the paragraph above.


I have, and SNH have stopped killing them in spite of your duff
advice.



As the services are probably worth nothing that would be a fair price
to charge :-))

With remark you denigrate the work of every volunteer in the country.

How do you work that out? I was describing your fruitless work in
advocating death to the hedgehogs.

You are obviously happy to see the destruction of thousands of nests of
breeding waders in the Uists and the consequent rapid decline of their
populations.

There's a rapid decline in many bird populations despite the RSPB's
income of £1m a week and your duff advice at a cost of £271 per day +
expenses, to the taxpayer.

And there are significant increases in many bird populations because the
RSPB is spending large sums of money and, I dare say, because of my
advice. Corncrakes are flourishing, for example.


Are you claiming an increase in corncrakes is down to your advice to
the RSPB?

What about all the others in decline?


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: HARLEQUIN LADYBIRD.
    ... I'm not killing any individual ladybirds, ... UK's many species of ladybirds? ... I have made it abundantly clear that I oppose the killing of one ... You've said people volunteer in what they believe in. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: HARLEQUIN LADYBIRD.
    ... And if you kill all the individuals of a species, ... I'm not killing any individual ladybirds, ... Are you claiming that an extinct species can be recreated? ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: HARLEQUIN LADYBIRD.
    ... alien invader destroying the UK's many species of ladybirds? ... I'm not killing any individual ladybirds, ... Are you claiming that an extinct species can be recreated? ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: HARLEQUIN LADYBIRD.
    ... alien invader destroying the UK's many species of ladybirds? ... I'm not killing any individual ladybirds, ... Are you claiming that an extinct species can be recreated? ... You've said people volunteer in what they believe in. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: HARLEQUIN LADYBIRD.
    ... will be money very well spent in saving our indigenous species. ... presumably you would be happy to see the UK's ladybirds ... Are you claiming that an extinct species can be recreated? ... You've said people volunteer in what they believe in. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)