Re: Water vole restoration

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:50:08 +0100, Malcolm Kane
<malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In message <4l3ka29rpup86um278rs4jgso85nibmejl@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 07:16:21 +0100, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


In article <hBpS71JV$YqEFwfX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Malcolm Kane
<malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
In message <0tnia294lsmbb5d79ed3fkrbr9khotkabr@xxxxxxx>,
amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes

Water voles are nowhere near extinction

I would be interested in your evidence of this "fact".

I am also interested in how you address the welfare of the voles which
are being predated by an introduced animal to which they have not
evolved any protective mechanisms.

and to use that term to
describe their almost non-presence in the UK

Surely from an animal welfare point of view we have to be concerned by
the rapid decline of the species. This suggests many individuals are
suffering premature death before they have chance to breed. Definitely
a huge animal welfare problem.

is grossly misleading and

OK to say almost extinct in the UK would be better but in a UK
discussion group I doubt that any but pedants would need the addition.

Have you any figures to show they are faring any better elsewhere?

another example of the dishonesty of fake conservationists.

This denial of extinction by Angus is in response to this remark of
mine: "the water vole can only be saved from extinction along a river if
the mink are got rid of." There are many rivers from which the water
vole has disappeared, driven into extinction along that river by mink.
Angus has chosen to ignore the words "along a river" but that's just
another example of his dishonesty.

It's your dishonesty that is shining through. Disappearance "along a
river" does not make the species "extinct".

It does on that river. Local extinction is a valid point.


Rubbish, for the reason I have given.




There is no need to "introduce" water voles to the River Dore except
by those who are obsessed with the nativeness of species.

Sorry Angus I disagree and I would have thought somebody with your
track record in animal welfare would also disagree. The individual
animals are either being killed early before having chance to breed or
are dying before having a chance to breed . This in my opinion is a
large welfare problem. I fail to see how either of these situations
can be described as being acceptable for the individual voles welfare.

I see that Angus's alternative to getting rid of mink in order to safely
reintroduce water voles was:

"I wouldn't introduce voles where mink are present."

Exactly.


which is one of his feebler efforts, wouldn't you agree?


Common sense and concern for the welfare of both mink and water voles.

So come on. Draw on your 30 years of animal welfare experience and give
some positive ways to improve the vole welfare without harming the mink.


It's not a welfare issue as I have explained elsewhere. Do try to
keep up.

Still sore about having to withdraw your lie, I see :-))



In other words, he can't think of a way of bringing back the water vole
without getting rid of this introduced predator, which one must remember
was also deliberately released into the wild by his AR friends. He
clearly prefers to see the extinction of the water vole from more and
more rivers. Fortunately, his views are only shared by a few other AR
supporters, and even then they are rather muted about it. You will
recall the huge fuss made about getting rid of hedgehogs from the Uists,
yet there was barely a murmur about the simultaneous, and highly
successful, removal of the mink from the same islands.

Many people are against the killing of mink but like foxes they are
considered to act against human interests such as killing poultry etc.
But it should be remembered that neither have keys to secure poultry
pens. If people don't look after their poultry what else can they
expect.

Which still doesn't answer how YOU would bring back voles and improve
their welfare without harming mink.

Simple, I wouldn't think of introducing voles where there were mink.



So come on give us the benefit of your experience.


Still sore about having to withdraw your lie, I see :-))


I see you've not addressed the issue about raptors.

So would you have raptors killed for animal welfare reasons?

If not, why not?

I addressed it elsewhere when I said only the predators which have been
released into places where they didn't occur before by AR activists.

Not all mink were released by AR activists.

So it's not about animal welfare; it's about origins:-((

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Water vole restoration
    ... a huge animal welfare problem. ... driven into extinction along that river by mink. ... can be described as being acceptable for the individual voles welfare. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: Water vole restoration
    ... a huge animal welfare problem. ... driven into extinction along that river by mink. ... You called me a plonker for asking you to provide a reference for your statement that voles are only 1% of mink diet. ... he can't think of a way of bringing back the water vole ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: Water vole restoration
    ... So would you have raptors killed for animal welfare reasons? ... Not all mink were released by AR activists. ... voles welfare. ... What strange ideas you have on animal ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: Water vole restoration
    ... Water voles are nowhere near extinction ... driven into extinction along that river by mink. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: Water vole restoration
    ... Their diet is inconsequential to my post, and the vole decline. ... I would suggest that somebody who accepts mink eat voles and then ... I do however favour the cull of Mink with a hope of restoring Water Voles, ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)