Re: Conservation or Management

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 08:03:30 +0000, Malcolm
<Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>In article <ov0fo1dgolr37ieu6cfpcvm1i4hb1e3nqq@xxxxxxx>,
>amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:38:44 +0000, Malcolm
>><Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>In article <6v8co15uf90mqa57isq2i53j35847dp2v2@xxxxxxx>,
>>>amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
>>>>On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:53:51 +0000, Malcolm
>>>><Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>In article <rkubo1tug9nbmu8aob7btms0s0qct0r570@xxxxxxx>,
>>>>>amacmil304@xxxxxxx writes
>>>>>>On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:17:23 +0000, Malcolm
>>>>>><Malcolm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What utter nonsense!
>>
>>I've snipped all your nonsense.
>>
>Except that it wasn't nonsense, it was asking you questions which you
>clearly can't answer without admitting that your attempt to equate human
>nationality with native and non-native plants and animals has failed.
>
>So, don't dodge my questions but answer them. Here they are again:
>

I wasn't dodging anything; just not pandering to your nonsense.

>Do you regard Cliff Richard, also born in India, as an "ethnic minority
>Indian"?

Yes, just as I would regard a child born of asian parents in this
country British.

>
>Do you regard Geraint Jones, the son of Welsh parents, who was born in
>Papua New Guinea as an "ethnic minority" Papua New Guinean?

Yes, just as I would regard a child born of asian parents in this
country British.
>
>Are the children of British newspaper columnist and his British wife,
>one of whom was born in Paris and another in New York, French and
>American, or British?

Yes, just as I would regard a child born of asian parents in this
country British.
>
>What is *your* nationality, Angus, and why are you that nationality? Is
>it because you were born in Britain or because your parents were
>British?

British because I was born in Britain.

>
>So it follows from your reasoning that if the wife of, say, a French
>couple on holiday in this country went into premature labour and her
>child was delivered in a British hospital that that child is British. Is
>that what you believe?

No, because they were not domiciled in Britain.

>
>>>
>>>>Nothing is more clear!
>>>>
>>>Nothing is more clear than that you have got yourself into a complete
>>>muddle with your claim that an animal or plant is "native" to Britain
>>>simply because it is born in Britain. And in your desperate attempt to
>>>shore up this unworkable definition, you have tried to equate it to a
>>>person's nationality.
>>
>>No Malcolm, it was you who introduced people into the discussion
>>
>You really should check you facts before you make such claims, Angus,
>because it is so easy to prove you wrong. If you go back to the very
>first post in this thread you will find that in the first few sentences
>it was commenting on both humans and plants and animals.
>
>I'll await your apology, without much hope that there will be one.
>
>>>The two things are completely separate.
>>
>>Are they?
>>
>Of course.
>
>>
>>> Non-native animals and plants don't become *native* by virtue of
>>>being born here.
>>>The nationality of a person is a completely different matter and there
>>>is no parallel to be drawn.
>>>
>>
>>If you think it's "completely different" then you obviously think the
>>a person does "become "native" by being boorn here.
>>
>More nonsense.
>
>Tell me, what nationality is Cliff Richard? Or the children of the
>newspaper columnist? Or Geraint Jones?

See above.

>
>>Indeed some time ago you said that people born on the moon would be
>>native.
>>
>>Seems you're arguing against yourself.
>>
>>Confused? Obviously :-)
>>

No answer to that :-(


>> >>>
>>>>>>On the other hand, if you apply your reasoning, it follows that you do
>>>>>>not accept that someone of ethnic origin born in the UK is British.
>>>>>>
>>>>>More very silly tripe. It is NOT my reasoning and your claim that it is
>>>>>is as false and fake as everything else you write about.
>>>>
>>>>Not at all, Malcolm.
>>>>
>>>>Your position is absolutely clear which I must say is not surprising
>>>>considering your support for the nazi principles of so-called
>>>>conservationists
>>>>
>>>You are in a complete muddle over this, Angus. And now all you can do is
>>>make silly remarks about me. I do not support any "nazi principles" of
>>>any kind and your repeated claims that I do are defamation.
>>
>>So are you saying that someone born in Britain fo ethnic parents is
>>NOT British?
>>
>I'm asking you what nationality Cliff Richard is? Or the children of the
>newspaper columnist? Or Geraint Jones?

See above.

>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>That makes you a racist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>No, it makes you look ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>>No Malcolm. If you don't accept a person born in India is an Indian
>>>>irrespective of their parents nationality then logically you do not
>>>>accept a person born in Britain irrespective of their parents
>>>>nationality is British.
>>>>
>>>Your "logic" is non-existent. See my examples above.
>>>
>>>Had your parents been working abroad when you were born, would that have
>>>made you, e.g., French, American, German, Japanese? No, of course not,
>>>you would have remained British.
>>
>>So if two asian parents have a child born in Britain you say it's not
>>British?
>>
>What nationality is Cliff Richard? Or the children of the newspaper
>columnist? Or Geraint Jones?

See above.


>>>
>>>>Far from it making me look ridiculous, it makes you look a racist.
>>>>
>>>Yet another insult. Try and get a grip on actual facts, Angus.
>>>Your claim that if an animal is born here it becomes "native" is just
>>>plain wrong and trying to compare it with references to people's
>>>nationality is completely meaningless.
>>
>>
>>No.Malcolm, it makes you look racist.
>>
>>Why does that not surprise me:-(
>>
>Because you're in a complete muddle over your attempts to equate human
>nationality with native and non-native plants and animals.

Not at all.

>
>I suggest you try and sort out the muddle you are in. In the meantime,
>perhaps you can answer these perfectly straightforward questions, rather
>than snipping them.

I snipped your nonsense.

>
>What nationality is Cliff Richard? Is he really, as you claim, an
>"ethnic minority Indian"? Is Geraint Jones an "ethnic minority" Papua
>New Guinean?

Gosh, not again :-))

>
>And what nationality are the children of my British newspaper friend and
>his British wife, one of whom was born in New York and one in Paris? Are
>you really claiming that they are "ethnic minority" American and French,
>respectively?
>
>And what nationality would you have been if you had been born while your
>parents were overseas?
>
>Answer these questions, please. Don't snip them.

I have.

So if two asian parents have a child born in Britain you say it's not
British?

Answer this question, please. Don't snip it or avoid it.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk
.

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