Re: Conditional in substardad english
- From: tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Tony Mountifield)
- Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:53:29 +0000 (UTC)
In article <44e4e63c$0$15871$4fafbaef@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
L'intronato <@h.it> wrote:
Firstable sorry for my english, but I hope to explain in the most clearly
way which are my doubts .
I'm italian and in my language there is a substandard (the purists call it
"not grammatical") use of the conditional:
1) se avrei i soldi, comprerei una macchina 'If I *would have the money I
would buy a car' [2° conditional]
In English we would say: "If I had the money, I would buy a car."
2) Se avrei studiato di più, avrei passato l'esame. 'If I *would have
studied more, I would have passed the exam' [3° or counterfactual
conditional]
This would be: "If I had studied more, I would have passed the exam."
Don't get confused between the two uses of "had". In the first sentence
it is the primary verb meaning to possess. In the second sentence, it is
the auxiliary verb to the past participle of "study".
Well, I'm asking you if the construction "If I would... I (will) would..."
is considered substandard or not in English (or in AE).
In British English, we would not use "would" as an auxiliary in the first
part of each sentence, but instead the subjunctive of the actual verb,
as Einde has explained in his posting.
After having done a research on the net I found theese sentences:
"If I would be the boss of Chanel, I will ask you to be my testimonial.."
from http://www.flickr.com/photos/agnieszka/sets/33413/comments/
I'm not sure whether this is future tense or not. If it is talking
about a hypothesised future, it would be:
"If I were to be[come] the boss of Chanel, I would ask you to be my testimonial."
If he is talking about a present fictitious scenario, it would be:
"If I were the boss of Chanel, I would ask you to be my testimonal."
"If I would be limited only to two albums, I would take none" from
http://www.myriad-online.com/en/community/interview/ddraganov.htm
If a fictitious scenario:
"If I were limited only to two albums, I would take none."
If a response to an actual limitation:
"If (=since) I am limited only to two albums, I will take none." (Not subjunctive).
There is a forum site called "If I would be a moderator"
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=55434
"If I were a moderator..."
Also this sentence sounds strange:
"He had asked if I would be available for full-time employment"
http://www.mccannas.com/sketch/horror.htm
But the standard form is "if I had been", isn't it?
Interestingly, that example is the only one in your posting that is actually
natural English.
The funny thing is that this type of substandard use exists in italian, too
(someone use the conditional form instead the subjunctive form). The issue,
anyway, is a bit different because, unlike italian, english doesn't have the
subjunctive.
It does indeed, although most native speakers don't realise it, because most
forms are identical to the indicative. English doesn't distinguish between
subjunctive and conditional.
I doubt the subjunctive is taught much at all nowadays. Even in the 1970s, I
learnt more about English grammar in German lessons than in English lessons!
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - http://tony.mountifield.org
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