Re: Damned MBP to Winblows wireless networking issue

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 04:26:34 -0500, Mentally Sub-Normal wrote
(in article
<67752709-f3c0-45e4-a675-9864d9084c52@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>):

On Nov 30, 5:35 pm, J.J. O'Shea <try.not...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:07:08 -0500, Graham J wrote
(in article <492dac5f$0$1345$fa0fc...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>):





"Jaimie Vandenbergh" <jai...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:rciqi4h0tsjnqv8ot9ske2mfjja1tjtmjl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 04:56:29 -0800 (PST), Mentally Sub-Normal
<sarah.j.balf...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 26, 12:04 pm, Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

If it's a router, there will be - it'll be NATting, which is
sufficient in almost all cases. Leave the XP firewall off while you're
experimenting.

Basic network stuff to try then - can you ping the XP box from the
Mac, and vice versa? What IP addresses are each on? I'm assuming both
get succesful Internet access via the router.

Can the Windows box see itself (and its shared things) in it's own
Network Neighborhood browser?

[various snips in the following quotes]

WOAH!!! Slow down there, my friend...Whilst I know what NAT stands
for, that is no suggestion that I know what it /does/.

Doesn't matter - it'll exist, and you don't need to consider it as
part of this problem.

Internet access is fine, yes.

Yes, the Windows box can see itself - as for IPs, well the MBP's on
192.168.1.101 and the Windows box 192.168.1.100.

Okay. But pings show that Mac->XP is not happening...

What is the IP address of the router?  On XP, open a comand window and
type:

ipconfig /all

This will report all the details of the network, including the Default
Gateway (i.e. the router).

First check whether the PC can ping its OWN ip address.  This will at least
prove that the TCP/IP service is working.  It will also prove that you can
type the numbers in correctly!  Then check that the PC can ping the router.

If the local IP is 169.254.x.y where x is a number from 0 to 255 inclusive
and y is a number from 1 to 254 inclusive, you have a problem. That's an
APIPA address, an Automatic Private IP Address, and that means that your
machine is set to receive an IP via DHCP... but isn't seeing the DHCP
server.
This is usually a Bad Thing(tm).



Now try the same test on the Mac.  Others will tell you whether there is an
equivalent to "ipconfig /all" to report the network settings.  Whatever,
can
the Mac ping itself?  Can it ping the router?

ifconfig -a will work. You'll get a long list of devices; the built in
Ethernet will usually be en0. On my machine, en0 shows:

en0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet6 <IP V6 address redacted>%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4
        inet <IP V4 address redacted> netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast <IP V4
address
redacted>
        inet6 <IP V6 address redacted> prefixlen 64 autoconf
        ether <MAC address redacted>
        media: autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex,flow-control>) status:
active
        supported media: autoselect 10baseT/UTP <half-duplex> 10baseT/UTP
<full-duplex> 10baseT/UTP <full-duplex,hw-loopback> 10baseT/UTP
<full-duplex,flow-control> 100baseTX <half-duplex> 100baseTX <full-duplex>
100baseTX <full-duplex,hw-loopback> 100baseTX <full-duplex,flow-control>
1000baseT <full-duplex> 1000baseT <full-duplex,hw-loopback> 1000baseT
<full-duplex,flow-control> none

You should have something similar.

en1 is usually the AirPort interface. On my machine, en1 shows:

en1: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet6 <IP V6 address redacted> %en1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x6
        inet <IP V4 address redacted> netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast <IP V4
address
redacted>
        inet6 <IP V6 address redacted> prefixlen 64 autoconf
        ether <MAC address redacted>
        media: autoselect status: active
        supported media: autoselect

IP V4 is the old, decimal, IP address, based on four groups of three numbers
between 0 and 255, separated by dots. IP V6 is the new, hexadecimal, IP
address, based on six hex numbers 0000 to ffff, separated by colons.



If both of these are OK, then try pinging Mac to PC, and PC to Mac.  Ensure
both machines have all firewalls off.  XP has a built-in firewall, but the
suppliers often pre-install an AV which includes a firewall.  Make sure
this
is off also.

Especially if the AV is anything from Symantec.

 The task manager will show a list of all the running
processes, so google for each one in turn to find out what they all do.

Some routers will run a ping test, so try router to XP, and router to Mac.
This should show whether either or both have a problem.

These tests are second nature to anybody familiar with networking - akin to
changing gear while driving a car.  If you're struggling, it would be much
better to get help from somebody competent.


J.J.,

Could I please have that in Plain English, with Extended Annotations
For The Terminally Stupid*...?

The AVP is Avast! Pro, and I have no one to ask (I've rather worn out
my welcome with the lovely, and ever-so-helpful, Jon B - and I don't
know of anyone else... :*o()

*That's 'terminally stupid' in both senses of the phrase...

Cheers,


Sarah


Okay.

First, you need to know a few basics. We'll be dealing with IP V4 addresses
and subnet masks; playing with V6 is too much like work. IP V4 addresses and
subnet masks are in a 'dotted decimal' or 'dotted quad' format: four groups
of four decimal numbers separated by dots, like this: 192.168.0.101 for the
IP, 255.255.255.0 for the mask. Your IP and your mask may be different in
detail, but that's generally how they'll look. Due to the way IP V4 was set
up, the numbers in each block run from a minimum of 000 to a maximum of
255... _except_ that the very last block in the actual IP runs from 001 to
254. Unless someone has been playing with the subnet masks, the numbers in
each block will be 255 or 000. If you see anything other than 255 or 000 in
the subnet mask, get back to us; that mask may be your problem. We'll also be
dealing with MAC addresses, which are six hexadecimal numbers separated by
colons, in the format 00:11:33:aa:bb:ff. Remember that hex numbers run from 0
to f.

1 on the Mac, go to /Applications/Utilities, locate Network Utility. Launch
it. You should see a multipaned interface. The first pane should be 'Info'.
There will be a pull-down menu which lists the various network interfaces on
your system. You should have, at the least, fw0 (that's the FireWire
interface), en0 (your built-in Ethernet), and en1 (your AirPort). Ignore any
others you may see. Ignore the fw0 interface. Write down the IP address and
the hardware address (that's the MAC address) for the en0 and en1 interfaces.
Note that if you do not have a wired connection to your Built In Ethernet
port, you may not have an IP address for the en0 interface. That is as it
should be. Move on to the en1 interface. If you don't have IPs for either,
you have a problem. Get back to us.

2 the next pane is 'Netstat'. Select it. There should be four radio buttons;
the topmost one 'Display routing table information', should be selected. If
it isn't, select it. Click the 'Netstat' button. After 5-10 seconds you
should see a whole lot of info; you only care about the first item, the
default gateway. Write that down. Note that if you don't have at least one
network device which has an IP, you won't have a gateway... or much of
anything else, in fact.

3 the next pane is 'AppleTalk', skip over it to 'Ping'. You don't care about
AppleTalk, and you do want to ping things. In the Ping pane there is a text
box where you can enter an IP; type in the IP address for your en0 interface.
There are two radio buttons; the bottom one allows you to specify the number
of pings. The default is 10. Leave it at that or use something smaller, say
4, if you so desire. Click the 'Ping' button. You should get back something
like this:

Ping has started ...

PING 192.168.0.101 (192.168.0.101): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=0.057 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.055 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.056 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.059 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.065 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.055 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.045 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=0.055 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=0.059 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.101: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=0.056 ms

--- 192.168.0.101 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 0.045/0.056/0.065/0.005 ms

If you do _not_ get a zero packet loss, there may be a problem. Usually
hardware. Take the machine in to be serviced.

Try something similar with the IP from your en1 interface, and with the IP
from the gateway. You have just established that you can ping your network
interface and the gateway, so your signals are reaching the router. If you
can't ping the gateway, verify that the router is up and operating properly;
the best way to do that is to turn off the router and the modem, wait 30
seconds, turn on the modem _first_, wait for it to stabilise (usually another
30 seconds) and then turn on the router and wait for it to stabilise. If you
were able to get a gateway IP in the first place the router should be
operational, but it's amazing how many times the simple turn it off, wait 30,
turn it on trick works.

Once you know that the router is operational, ping something else. I like to
ping Google: www.google.com, or 208.69.32.230, either will work. Again, you
should get back a zero packet loss. If you can ping Google, you can connect
to the Internet. That means that the Mac is good to go.

3 go to the Windows box. If it is running XP or 2000, select 'Run' from the
Start menu. If it is running Vista, swear at the morons in Redmond, select
'All Programs', select 'Accessories', then select 'Run'. If it is running
something else, throw it away and get a real computer.

4 once you select 'Run', type in 'cmd' and you will get the Windows terminal.
In the terminal, type 'ipconfig', and you'll get your local IP and the IP of
the gateway and your subnet mask. Write all that down. Verify that the
gateway the Winbox is seeing is the same as the gateway that the Mac is
seeing. Verify that the Winbox and the Mac have the same mask. If they don't,
they're on different networks, and that's your problem right there. Verify
that they are both on the same network; if they have IPs of 192.168.x.y,
where 'x' is a number from 0 to 255, 'x' _must_ be the same in both cases or
they are on different networks. (172.16.x.y and 10.x.x.y networks are more
complex; contact us.) At the same time, 'y' _must_ be a number from 1 to 254,
and each machine _must_ have a different 'y'. No two devices on a net can
have the same address... If 'y' is 0 or 255, there is a problem, that's
illegal under IP V4 rules.

5 at the terminal, type in 'ping' and the Winbox's IP; this will ping the
winbox four times. Again, if you don't get zero packet loss, there is a
problem. Repeat with the router's IP, then ping Google. If all goes well,
your Winbox can see the internet. Try to ping the Mac's IP. You should get
zero packet loss. Move to the Mac, use Network Utility to ping the Winbox's
IP. If both machines can ping each other, they are on the same network and
we're good to go. If there's a problem with pinging the other machine, but
both can ping Google, then there's probably a firewall issue. Avast doesn't
have a firewall, or at least the last version I tried didn't. Turn off the
Windows firewall and try pinging again.

--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.

.

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