Re: Firefox 3 RC1

Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

zoara <me18@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

zoara <me18@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

zoara <me18@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[snip]

Add themes, track down GrApple Eos, and Firefox 2 looks like a Mac
app.

Nearly.

No, it looks exactly like a proper Mac app - just not identical to the
particular style that The Steve has decided is what he likes at the
moment.

It doesn't look exactly like a Mac app.

I'd say that it does - it's just that the style doesn't exactly match
the currently Apple-approved styles, but they've changed with almost
every 0.1 increment release of MacOS X.

That sounds to me like "it doesn't look exactly like a Mac app".

I think you need to read what I wrote a bit more carefully and then try
to understand my point.

I already have read it very carefully, and I still don't understand your
point, so please assume that I'm stupid and explain what you mean.


If they
used the standard window widgets then their style would be consistent
with the rest of the OS. As it stands, they use custom widgets so any
theme needs to be manually updated to keep in step with the standard
widgets.

Yes, I know - well, maybe, since you've not explained what you mean by
`widget' except that I can work out you mean the word to mean something
other than what it means in the standard Mac sense.

Have you tried Googling it? That's a useful way to find out the meaning
of terms you are unfamiliar with... I had assumed, given that we were
talking about user interface elements, that you were either familiar
with the term or would be able to find it out.


Now read what I wrote and try to understand my point.

I really hope you don't honestly think I am wilfully trying to
misunderstand you. I can't work out how you can say that Firefox doesn't
quite look like a Mac app at the same time as disagreeing with my
statement that it only "nearly" looks like a Mac app.


Off the top of my head,
background windows in Firefox don't look like background windows in
other apps.

I can't see any obvious differences here.

Ah, you're on Tiger, aren't you?

MacOS X 10.4.11, don't ask me about the stupid code names.

Ah, you're on 10.4, aren't you?


Leopard has a UI improvement

I'd say `modification' - what I've got with 10.4 (is Leopard 10.5? I
forget those bloody stupid confusing impossible to remember code names
and I wish people would use the sensible informative numbers) does the
job you say this `improvement' is meant to do.

Okay. I just remember it being a royal pain to spot the frontmost window
in 10.4, whereas it' jumps out at me in 10.5. I had assumed that this
was because 10.4 didn't differentiate between window z-positions very
well, but if that's not true then I apologise, I simply misremembered.


where
background windows are flatter and greyer (so you can more easily pick
out the frontmost window). FF - until recently - didn't follow this
convention.

Looks like 10.4 has a flatter and paler style for background windows,
making it easy to pick out the foreground window, and Firefox here looks
like it does that the same way as everything else.

Well, that's very odd, because Firefox - until a few weeks ago - was
unable to change its window style based on z-position. Unless you are
simply talking about the window titlebar (which is handled by the OS,
not Firefox's windowing engine, and therefore changes in a way
consistent with other apps) then I have no idea how you can be seeing
what you are seeing.

Care to provide a screenshot, say with Mail in the background and
Firefox in the foreground, and then another with them the other way
around? I would expect that Mail's toolbar and window widgets will
change but with Firefox, only the titelbar will.


The
button between the address bar and the search box is not a standard
button, and seems too squared off (or not anti-aliased enough at the
corners) to fit with Aqua. There's a horizontal scroll well at the
bottom despite the fact that the window is not wide enough to need a
scroll bar

I don't see that here.

Look at the bottom right of your MacSOUP window. See the resize widget?

Er? Do you mean the corner of the window that can be grabbed to resize
the window?

Yes. The thing at the bottom right of your MacSOUP window.


Not all of us know what your jargon means.

You seemed able to get it from context though (and Google would have
confirmed).


A widget to a
normal Mac user is something that runs in Dashboard, isn't it?

It is, but that would make no sense in context. Or do you have Dashboard
widgets attached to the bottom right of your MacSOUP windows?


Maybe Apple's overloaded that particular jargon term so that it also
applies to something else too - if so, it's bloody confusing for you to
use it here without explaining what you meant.

I apologise; it *was* confusing. I made an assumption that my
terminology would be understood, especially given the context, and I was
wrong.

In my defense, you still managed to guess correctly.


Look to the left of it; what's there? I'm actually typing directly to
the left of that widget right now.

I can't see what you're doing. I have no idea what you are asking
about.


*sigh* No, you can't see what I'm doing. I'm not asking you to. I asked
you to look to the left of the resize widget in YOUR copy of MacSOUP,
not mine. And I gave you directions to the resize widget, too - at the
bottom right of the window. I can't really see how I can be any clearer
than that - even with the added complication of not explaining the term
"widget", it seems that you were still able to guess what I meant. So,
what's to the left of that? For me, it's the text I'm typing right now.
What is it for you?


Now look at the bottom right of that screenshot. Resize widget. What's
to the left? Window content? No, an empty scroll well.

I see no link to a screenshot.

Well, you responded quite aggressively when I posted that link and asked
whether that was the theme you were referring to.


There is no empty scroll well at the
bottom of my Firefox windows. There is a status line, but no scroll
well unless it's needed. When it's not needed, it goes away.

Yes, I've just checked. I've no idea what you're on about at all. The
`bug' you're reporting doesn't exist on Firefox 2.0.0.14 running on
MacOS X 10.4.11.

Yes, I take that back - it seems I saw a status bar on the screenshot
and mistook it for an empty scroll well.



And why are the two magnifying glasses different colours?

Magnifying glasses? I see no magnifying glasses.

In the two search boxes; top right and bottom left of the screenshot.

I see no link to any screenshots. I am looking at Firefox here on my
Mac - what else did you expect me to be doing?

Um, looking at the screenshot I posted? The one that we've been using as
a common frame of reference to discuss the theme? So we're both looking
at the same thing and can discuss it?


One's a Google search box and the other's a page content search box. You
*are* looking at the same screenshot as me, aren't you?

Not at all - I'm not looking at any sort of screenshot. Why think that
I was looking at a screenshot?

Because it would be ridiculous to expect me to point out things on your
copy of Firefox, as I don't know what it looks like. That's why I
provided a link to a screenshot.


I think it's odd that you'd think I'd be looking at a screen shot.

I think it's odd that you'd expect us to be able to discuss what
something looks like without us both looking at the same thing.

-zoara-


--
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
- Charles Darwin
.