Re: The Dock through the years

Andy Hewitt <wildrover.andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[snip]

Can you tell me what's running and what's not after a single mouse
movement to pop up your `dock on the side' and seeing all 41 icons
overlayed on top of heavy background clutter for a fraction of a second?
It's got to be fast: tell me what's apps are running in less then a
second's work then, can you?

If you say `Yes, I can do that', I'll just call you a liar to your face.

No I can't, but I couldn't do that with any other way of presenting that
data either. I can see what's running in the Dock just as quickly as
anything else though.

But I can do the job in that time using the UI elements I have available
- the Dock's just too slow for my liking. You don't seem to mind the
lack of speed.

But I don't believe I do have a 'lack of speed' issue here.

<shrug> Who can tell? You don't mind the speed you work at. It sounds
slow to me. <shrug> again.

[..] > > I mean, you *can* hide the Dock when using an application -
games for > > one will often cover it up, and I use Aperture which does
too, in Full > > Screen mode. > > So what? I fail to see the relevance
of that point.

Well, it isn't now I understand that you hide your Dock (which wasn't
clear for about the first week of this thread!).

Ah. It's something I've mentioned fairly often.

There are things I mention often, but I don't assume anyone will
remember it. I haven't been keeping up with the reast of the thread
either.

There are so many words I've no idea what I've said to whom or when or
where. I'm useless at keeping track of that sort of thing.

[..]
I don't think it's slow! The information is, erm, just there, and I can
see what I need quickly enough.

See above - you're happy working at a lower pace with this sort of thing
than I'm willing to put up with.

As I said, I don't think it is a lower pace. I have tried some of the
other alternatives, and I know they do not help me work faster.

Well, if it works for you, keep at it.

[..]
But I don't need to do that, I can glance at it, and know what each icon
is.

Some are not readily distinguishable, and I have in any case not
bothered to memorise the icons. I've always had `icon plus text' up
until the Dock appeared, so I've not learnt to recognise icons alone.
It is after all an extra step, having to make an explicit mental link
between picture and words rather than having the machine prompt me every
time. I mean, it knows what the damned name is, so why the hell should
I have to go to the trouble of memorising it?

Perhaps another user defineable function?

The Dock's design is such that you can't add text labels to the icons
without buggering it all up.

You'd have to do the same - either that, or push your face close to the
screen to figure 'em out. Trust me on this.

Not at all, I just don't see what you're seeing (or not, as the case may
be). My Dock is perfectly clear, and I can see what is what just by
looking at the icons.

That is not at all straightforward to do here, I can assure you. I
don't care what your eyesight's like. Background clutter and 56 tiny
icons some of which splurge into each other when scaled down to the
small sizes that they've got at the moment - it's a major pain. The
background clutter showing through the transparency is probably the
biggest problem, now I've had a good close look.

56 icons? but it was 40 earlier!

Yes, that's right. I counted each time (but wasn't it 48? I forget).
And each report was accurate at the time I made it. Would you believe
that this Mac gets used? That *things change*! That sometimes I open
up apps to do things, and minimise windows, and do all sorts of things.

Now it starts to make a difference.

It's not a lot worse with 56 or 48 icons - either way, it's a pain.

[..]
[..]
Well, it's a choice thing really, I just prefer to have the Dock
visible, that's all.

I don't like losing that much space. It's an intrusion. I like to use
the entire monitor - what's the point in losing a big chunk to a static
UI element that there's no need to have permanently accessible?

Well, at your resolutions, yes, that's understandable.

Resolution hasn't got a lot to do with it.

[..]
There was certainly a time when that was expected, but things have got
better now, I had my Formac 17" LCD sitting next to an LG Flatron 17"
CRT, and although there was a slightly better colour range on the CRT,
the LCD was still mauch clearer. I'm now using a HP 20" widescreen, and
that is clearer still, has even better colour and tonal range, so I'm
using just that now. Of course the widescreen does help with leaving the
Dock visible on one side.

We've got a widescreen monitor, and it's bit of a trek to reach the Dock
on the side. Then again, Rebecca likes it on the right I think because
she's left handed and my automatic responses tell me to go left for that
sort of thing...

That's why I like a trackball, just a flick of the wrist, and the
pointer is somewhere near where it needs to be.

I hate trackballs for anything but playing Missile Command. They do bad
things to my hand, arm, and shoulder - unless I'm playing Missile
Command.

[..]
I haven't gnored it, I just don't see it. Using the app switcher by
keyboard is a simple left hand movement,

It's a fairly awkward key combo to hit, and more so when your hand's not
on the keyboard.

You have to end up there at some time surely? :-)

Indeed - but it requires a mode switch.

with my mouse in the right, I
have no need to move my hand from the mouse to open the app switcher. As
I said before, I can see this being a problem if you were left handed,
but you didn't state otherwise.

If I'm using the mouse, I'm in `non keyboard mode'. I have hands off
the keyboard unless there are special circumstances. If I want to use
the keyboard, I have to switch to `keyboard mode'; a different way of
thinking. That mode switch is mental effort, and it takes time to tune
back in to the keyboard. So it's often awkward for me. And since I've
been doing application switching using mouse only since about 1990...

OK, I must admit that's not something I even thought about, as far as
I'm aware, it just happens. But then I spent 6 years using keyboard
only,

I didn't get to see a GUi until 1985, IIRC.

then 5 years using mouse and keyboard on a 320x200 screen.

Ouch.

Then
mouse mostly on a Mac for the last 13 years, but I found myself
switching quite easily between mouse and keyboard, depending on the
needs at any particular time.

The only problem I have is that it takes a few seconds to get into the
swing of typing again when my fingers hit the keyboard again. It's just
a small hiccup - no big deal, but it *is* an issue if you do it a lot,
so I try to reduce the amount of switching.

I find that the Apple app switcher is sometimes a bit useful now I've
got it to activate on mouse squeeze, mind - but you don't get any
convenient keyboard shortcuts at all when you're only touching the
mouse, do you?

Nope.

[..]
I always did get that, I'm just arguing your absolute terminology
towards the Dock, and such like.

Calling it unfit for purpose is perfectly accurate, since it's supposed
to be the one true solution for everyone, and it fails in that. You
seem to be arguing alone the same sort of lines as someone who suggests
that *that* 5'6" doorway is fine because although a lot of people brain
themselves trying to walk through it, short people are fine.

Erm, OK, but it isn't essentially 'unfit for purpose', as you can still
use it as a doorway,

Look, it's not a perfectly example, okay?

But: rather a lot of the modern world - sofas, fridges, and washing
machines included - assumes rather large doorways. And there probably
are health and safety regs about doorways such that you'd find your 5'6"
doorway was only allowed if you put the warning signs up.

but I sort of see your point. There's also other
factors that are involved in such cases, such as the realms of
'reasonableness'.

Yep.

And I still can't find any statement where is says it's a 'one size fits
all'.

ARGH! Of course you won't. So? It's implied that it's a one size fits
all solution because it's what Apple gave us to do all application
launching, application switching, window hiding, and so on. Apple
replaced the excellent UI elements they had before for these different
jobs and rolled them all into the Dock and removed the old UI elements.

That's what says it's a one size fits all solution.

I still don't see why we couldn't at least have been left Windowshade
and an application menu, but there you go.

It does do what it says on the tin.

The tin says nothing.

It shows what apps are open,
it allows launching of apps, and documents, it allows switching, and it
can be customised to some extent.

Yes, but it's very bad at all these jobs. Jack of all trades, competent
at (never mind master of) none.

Overall, it does do what they say it
can.

What is implied is that it's the ideal solution for everything that's
its designed to do. All Apple ever does these days is make vague
marketing claims and publish lists of features - indeed, much of its
so-called documentation is just marketing drivel without any technical
worth at all.

How well it does those things is the matter of the argument, but
nevertheless, all the things is says it can do, it does do.

Indeed - and it does them badly.

Although... I did hear on the radio about a set of bus shelters along a
school bus route that are 5' high - so that only the kids get to use
'em.

LOL, my daughter is 5ft 10in, at age 13.

Given the height, one must assume they were for pre high school kids.
One of my nieces was 5'1" at the age of 11.

Hang on a bit - daughter, *13* years old, 5'10"???? Two inches under
six feet tall, is that right? At that age?

Ye gods! What was it, the fairies swapped her when she was young, or
what? Magic potion?

My mother hit that height by the age of 28 and hated it... She's about
1/4" taller than me, btw.

Rowland.

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