Re: I'm a Mac engineer ;-(

On Sun, 20 May 2007 01:17:28 +0100, usenet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Woody)
wrote:

ok, probably an additional layer of confusion with it downloading to the
desktop there. I wouldn't have a web browser do that, and if you didn't
it would just appear as an open folder.

So stopping that happening would be something you set in your browser?

If it was a .zip it might offer to open it and
I could run the installer from there (so a bit like your disk image).

Well, no, nothing like a disk image, it is like an installer, so it is
the same as an installer on the mac, and both act the same. If you open
a disk image on the PC (which you need additional software for, which is
why it is less common) it would do the same thing as the mac as well.

Ah. Ok. I believe I do actually what you describe running all the time
in the form of 'Virtual Daemon Manager' that just sits there with just
one game CD image mounted, hence why I didn't make the link (I don't
'use' it as such, it's just there).

Once complete, the downloaded file would still be there (like OSX) and
the .zip installer would probably self close (OSX you would have to
eject the image?).

Which is the problem. The behaviour of a disk image and a zip file are
practically identical on windows and OSX. However, you are comparing a
disk image in OSX with a zip file in windows. The problems would be
exactly the same if you compare a disk image in windows with a zip file
on OSX.

Understand now, ta.

They seem so similar yet are subtly different.

In this case there is no difference at all between windows and OSX. You
are just comparing different things.

;-(

I don't know why microsoft choose to put their mac software in a disk
image and their windows software in a MSI installer (I haven't installed
MSN on either a mac or a PC so I can't comment), but that is just the
way they do it.

No, nor me, but then I wouldn't consider why as long as they just
work?

I tried to move both off the desktop to a downloads folder on the
second drive but it told me the hdd looking one (or something) was in
use?

That is odd (and one of my real gripes with windows - I don't care if it
is in use, I want to change it).

Hmmm ..

really it gets me almost every day and it is very frustrating. If you
are in XP (with microsoft office [1] installed) and you click on a
folder that contains over 6000 XML files, then you realised you cant be
bothered to wait for it to show you the files as you clicked on the
wrong folder and you click somewhere else while it is doing the
searchlight thing, regardless of what happens after that, you can't
rename that folder, or delete it without unmounting that disk (which
luckily is an external disk, so I can do it). It will tell you that you
can't as the folder is in use by an application.

Ah, not nice and I've seen similar myself, not very often mind and not
normally a show stopper (ie rarely need / want to change the name of a
folder once I've created it). But then in spite of 'using' PC's most
my working life I have never worked on one as my actual job (built,
repaired, upgraded, networked, modified, destroyed yes, used all day
for work, never).

I suppose it also might be an issue re what is part of the
installation process and what is the final application (or shortcut to
it or whatever it's called in OSX parlance).

I think in this case there was an added complication of downloading it
to the desktop on the mac, thus creating an additional icon you didn't
need to see.

Ok ..

Like, when the Messenger .dmg file auto mounted / opened the
'installer' had exactly the same (or very similar) icon to the final
application.

microsoft are a bit crap with their choice of icons for this sort of
thing.

So I could be cut a bit of slack re some of this then Woody (I know
you are etc).

Apple installers all have the same icon, which is a bit clearer,
and a lot of other programs have a disk image with a picture of what to
do as the background

Agreed, some are quite nooby friendly ;-)

Most installers on the mac have a name such as 'Game Installer', so
should be fairly apparent.

Well as I don't do that much Mac work I probably don't have a feel for
the full range of variables yet.

I would further suggest (and again explain some of my confusion) with
Windows you seldom just copy a single file app into a general purpose
folder, it's nearly always a full installer or a suite of files you
would (should) place in their own discrete folder, then create a
shortcut to the main app somewhere if you want to.

Indeed. that is where the problem lies the other way round. One of the
frustrations you see for Mac people using the PC is they expect to just
get one program and stick it where they like, whereas the PC is fixed to
be in its own place

Oh indeed. Never assumed otherwise.

(with invariably a nonsensical name, such as
c:\Program Files\<Name of company you don't remember>\<Name of
application you are looking for>.).

LOL .. you are right in some cases .. ;-)

For instance, the one I always forget is Paint shop pro. I will look
through Program Files, looking for it, and then eventually remember it
is under Jasc. If I want photoshop on my Mac, it is under
/Applications/Graphics/Photoshop, which makes more sense to me.

Although you are absolutely correct I suggest yer average user
wouldn't be wandering through the directories ... most don't even know
what Windows Explorer is, let alone the hot keys to get it up! ;-)

As you say though .. maybe I simply don't consider the steps under XP,
even when they differ slightly (mostly done on autopilot, as you are
with OSX) and still very much have to with OSX?

I would assume so. I know that with most software you get (or printers
and stuff), the install setup instructions are shorter for the Mac than
the PC, so it can't be that much harder.

Ok .. And when it works as it should even I don't have problems. It's
when it's a bit different or even different from the last thing I did
... that's when one can get caught out.

I do both machines most of the time, and don't find anything
particularly hard that I can think of on either machine. They are both
as easy as each other, and both have their own niggles. I personally
prefer the OSX way, as it works better for me [2] but neither presents
any problem that cause me to think about them.

But then you are a clever person and a software engineer ... ;-)>

[1] If you click on a folder with 6000 xml files with microsoft office
installed, it takes about 4-10 seconds to show you the files. If you
don't have office installed it is instant.

Weird. What if you dis-associate .xml's with Excel?

[2] You are probably thinking it is because I am more used to it, but I
am not as obviously I have only used OSX since it came out in 2001,
whereas I used NT4/2000/XP/Vista since they came out (actually in all
cases before they were released) back to the mid 90s.

That's 5.5 years more OSX exposure than I have had though Woody, and
like I said, you actually use (in a detailed sense) said for both work
and pleasure.

Me, I switch it on, use a couple of apps (generally one_at_a_time),
play a game, turn it off <bless eh> ;-)

Well, what I have found is using the stock AC fan that comes with the
Core 2 Duo and mounting it above the passively cooled video card and
below the CPU heat sink of the Arctic Freezer 7 Pro (minus fan) that
seems to provide nearly silent cooling to both devices, even during a
pretty intense game! Interesting huh ... (Woody, Woody, wake up! ...)
;-)

All the best ..

T i m





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