Re: South-West meetup?

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:53:52 +0000, pd.news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (PeterD)
wrote:

T i m <news@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:46:19 +0000, pd.news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (PeterD)
wrote:

T i m <news@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Why did PeterD feel a need to drag me into this thread anyway,
just can't leave me out can he ... (bless) ;-)

I didn't drag you in - you were already lurking. Otherwise how would you
have known about the Rebin Roliant bait?

Cumon Peter, you know the difference between lurking and contributing.

Hey don't get your knickers in a twist. It's just light-hearted teasing,
you know?

Well, I must admit I was beginning to wonder .. no smilies etc?

I did see yer bait but wasn't actually going to respond (seeing it for
what it was)

That suggests you think it was unfriendly.

Not unfriendly as such .. just not sure what the goal was?

I don't tease people I don't
like, I just killfile them.

I though I *was* in your killfile Peter?

.. And even Jan, when he's being particularly
unpleasant, hasn't been killfiled.

<shrug> Jan?

But if you really didn't want me to join in you wouldn't put yer bait
out would ya?

I wouldn't alter my articles in order not to provoke a reply from you,

Understood ..

although I have half-written articles specifically for you that I
haven't posted, because they haven't expressed exactly what I want to
say.

It's the thought that counts ;-)

Your refrain about "Windows works for me, so why should it matter
what OS other people use?" needs a clear, understandable response,
because it *IS* important.

It's also fact (for me).

I don't know if you've read any Robert Pirsig (Zen and the Art of
Motorcycle Maintenance, Lila) but he is particularly concerned with
Quality, and Values.

No I'm afraid I haven't Peter. Re the Haynes manuals .. I don't read
much ;-(

If you accept his thesis that Quality (and the term
intrinsically means *Good* Quality) is important and desirable, then
simply accepting the dominance of bad design, bad security, bad ethics
and bad interface that is Microsoft Windows is not an option.

Erm, I had a Royal Enfield Bullet, made (some say) badly in Madras and
it did 5000 miles without missing a single beat. My much more
expensive BMW (quality, Ultimate riding machine etc?) has let me down
3 times in the same miles (with only run-in miles on the clock).

This is not to say that Apple is God, but OSX is certainly preferable as
an alternative to the bodge of Windows.

To some. I will 'cope' with the risks of viruses (by simply adding
some free software) because for me there *isn't* any other choice. I
want to do what I want to do (as in build / change / play games etc)
and I simply can't do that on a Mac. I have NEVER said they aren't
good / perfect / better for other people, simply not for me (and many
like me).

In fact, I think the best
situation would be a multitude of OSes, with no single manufacturer
dominating.

I have no interest in politics Peter (in context and respectfully).

This would have prevented Internet Explorer from being able
to influence the Web so heavily, and may have prevented the ocean of
spam spewing from virus-infected zombie PCs that we're currently
afflicted by,

We? I've not had any issues on any machine here for many years? I'm
not saying thousands don't and I accept anything that is vulnerable
that way isn't 'good', but isn't it like banning cars because drivers
kill people with them?

because Microsoft are more interested in squeezing in more
features at any quality, rather than fewer, well-designed, truly useful
and beneficial capabilities.

If beneficial is 'compatibility' and 'functionality' then from my
(modest) real world exposure to Mac's so far I'll stay where I am
thanks. Yes, I could modify my PC usage to 'accommodate' the Mac but I
don't need to. Don't fix what's not broken (for ME that is).

I'm actually surprised that someone like you, with your engineer's
appreciation of good quality workmanship, doesn't understand why Windows
having a practical monopoly of the personal computer is such a bad
thing.

Politics again Peter. I use what works for me <fullstop>. And to do
anything about it you (one / we) will have to evangelize very very
hard indeed and to be honest I couldn't say my heart would be in it.

Perhaps it's just because your view is so narrow that because
your experience of Windows hasn't affected you the way it has affected
the rest of the computer-using public, you can't see the degradation in
quality that has resulted.

Well that's entirely possible of course. However, whilst something
does all I ask of it and does so reliably (for ME again remember) I'll
carry on using it? Others will have to do what's best for them. *I*
cannot 'push' the purchase of a Mac to someone looking for a 'PC'
(computer) because 1) I'm not in a position to help them and 2) I
don't want to have to field the 'Tim, this xxx prog won't work' or 'I
can't get on my online bank' type questions. I offer that 'most' the
general public (outside this list of course) don't have a 'Mac Man' to
turn to.

And yet your interests seem to be wider than
"computer hardware", so that doesn't make sense.

Ok, and I accept you may be confused by me but I really believe my
fundamental goals / desires are pretty consistent, no matter what
subject. ie, I bought a non-stick 'stir_fry_pan' in spite of being
advised to get a 'real' wok because 1) I got the stir_fry pan at the
top of the road, 2) it's easier to use / clean and 3) it does what I
need it to. Ok, now it might not 'enhance' the quality of the food but
I'm only cooking to eat, not as a hobby in itself. Does that make
sense Peter?

Damn, I really didn't want to start down this path until I had
sufficient time to construct a clear and logical post explaining exactly
why your support for Windows is foolishly naive, and so frustrating for
some Mac users.

No, what you have said is fine by me Peter. You know I'm not as clever
with words as some (most?) on here so at least I (feel) I understand
what you are saying.

'Foolishly naive'? That makes the assumption I have a choice Peter but
as I've tried to stress, time and time again the OS isn't really the
be-all-and-end-all of my whole involvement in 'PC's. I like building
them (in spite of those who insist on poo-pooing that) and (sometimes)
like playing games on them that simply aren't available on the Mac /
Linux platform. Try giving a kid an XBox when the game he really
want's to play is only available on a PS2 or Nintendo? Ok, I know with
the iMac's you can now dual boot with Bootcamp or run numerous
alternative OS's under Parallels etc but I simply don't *need* to run
OSX / Linux (and I can run Linux on the PC anyway).

So what would you have me do, dump what I know and enjoy because you
don't like it or others can't manage their boxes properly?


Perhaps the lack of quality in this inconsistent, bodged
together, bloated article won't bother you, and you'll be able to make
something of it regardless.

For me it reads fine Peter and thank you for writing it. I am (still
and respectfully) surprised though re your lack of understanding of
*my* position.

I know you like your Mac's, that you can do all you want on them and
that a signoff of them is that they are more immune to some of the
issues that some naive PC uses allow their machines to succumb to and
I wouldn't even try to justify a PC to you because I know your
feelings on the matter.

Do I support 'Windows' (or M$ for that matter)? No, not as a stand
alone product / company. Do I (and 99% of my friends and family) use
it because we enjoy the pro's in spite of the cons, then yes.

Do I like the machine that is Tesco, no? Do I sometimes buy stuff from
there because it's easy / cheap, sometimes.

Also I note that some put forward the idea that the 'workflow' is
better on OSX than XP. Again, probably sufficient justification to go
OSX if 'workflow' was important to you. With me it's simply isn't.

As for my narrow minded views .. last night I installed Nexenta on my
Dell laptop and it couldn't detect the video chipset nor sound driver.
Neither could I find how to set / fix it so this morning I've
installed Ubuntu 6.1. That found the video and sound drivers no
problems, went on the net, downloaded 141 updates and seems to be
sitting there ok. The help re 'Getting WiFi working' recommends using
'the Microsoft ndiswrapper' .. Then assuming I do get it all working
then what? All it will do is what I can do with XP but with the extra
limitations of unsupported hardware / applications (or not without
some reasonable Linux knowledge and some terminal work)?

sudo ndiswrapper -i ~/Desktop/drivername.inf .??

I find it much easier to click on 'install driver' .. and if I haven't
got it I can easily get it off the net (compared with me and Linux
stuff I mean).


So, just in case you missed it. I have nothing against any other
platform / OS / apps / users. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m




<Now, where was I, oh I know, let's see if Linksys do a Linux driver
for a WPC54G Ver5 ... >








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