Re: [OT] - Overhead warning signs on motorways

Bruce Horrocks wrote:
In message <dv1ecu$qk4$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Steve Firth <%steve%@xxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
Bruce Horrocks wrote:
They might well say that but it's absolutely bollocks.

<sigh>

No it's not.

Well then I would very much like to see that records from the sensors because it got so bad that if I'd owned a video camera I would have set the thing up in the car to record some evidence and ask for an explanation. Signs that go from 60 to 40 to 60 on successive gantries for light lunchtime traffic seem to be micro-managing rather than smoothing traffic.

If there are two (or more) locations where queues have formed separated by a distance of a few km it's regarded as sensible to "smooth" the speed signalling by signing a 60 limit to bridge the gap between the two locations. Hence as you drive along you will see a 60 limit, then a 40 limit (detected location of queue) then pass to a 60 limit (gap before next queue) then a 40 limit (location of queue) and so on.

The alternatives are to sign a 40 limit throughout - frustrating for drivers, or to return to NSL between queues, which has been proven to be dangerous because drivers over-compensate and speed up to 90+ then plough into the back of the next queue.

MIDAS, operating as it does as present, has reduced accidents by 18-25%.

This was a few years ago - before the recent widening and additional gantries that are there now so maybe things work better now.

I live for the days when drivers actually learn to look through their windscreen and see what is ahead of them.

A couple of years back I was working near Addlestone and often took
the short stretch of M25 between there and the M3 at lunchtime.

Ah, the type of driver who actually causes the problem, junction hopping.

Not at all. My journey only started on the M25 for one junction but then continued down the M3. That is a perfectly reasonable use of motorways.

Everybody else thinks their use is "reasonable" as well. Sadly all of the M25s problems stem from drivers who travel just one junction.

Each weekday at 12.30 or so the traffic would be equally light but the signs would vary from 30 to 60 to off on different days.

That's because the traffic conditions vary from day to day even at the same time of day. The aim of the signalling is to keep traffic free flowing at the expense of having to impose a temporarily lower speed limit. So, the system worked as designed, your journey time could only have been affected by a few minutes at most, so errr... what are you moaning about?

What am I moaning about? Two things: one being held up by a system that cuts in before it is necessary - because I contend that the traffic was sufficiently light that it would not have become congested if the system were not in operation. Secondly, I dislike being put in danger by tail-gating juggernauts who are less inclined to see the need to go at 40 when the road is superficially clear.

The problem of piss poor lorry driving is not created by MIDAS. It's the nut behind the wheel.

Plus, when the signs go from 40 to 60 and back again, do you re-overtake a lorry that is limited to 56 and then annoy him by slowing down in front of him at the next gantry again? Or do you stay behind at an even slower pace?

You could learn to drive, it would help a lot.

I began to wonder if they were testing them or if the operators were
just pissing about,

Why, wonder, do drivers always seek to assume that the operators spend their day deliberately causing traffic problems? Do you also assume that doctors spend all day breeding new diseases?

Well, I did wonder but then I found this document on the HA site:
<http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/documents/b040206_v1.2.pdf>
which says:
"These MIDAS signal settings can be over-ridden by control room operators, but only if:
• The system is clearly malfunctioning to such an extent that it is believed to be creating a public safety concern; and"

So even if the operators are convinced that the system is malfunctioning they still can't override the system until that malfunction causes a public safety concern. And you wonder why I thought that the operators were being perverse?

Yes, I do. What is perverse on the part of the operator in the above?

but it got very frustrating.

Why?

Because it's normal to plan a journey assuming certain speeds on certain roads at certain times of the day.

It may be "normal" but driving like a selfish, inconsiderate, blind arse is also "normal". A sensible driver would make allowances for traffic delays, rather than blaming their own frustrations on those who are there to make the roads as safe as possible.

Perhaps HA should remove all the electronic signalling and return to the "good old days" when Woking to Staines would take about two hours (minimum) at peak periods?
.

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