Re: cold plug with udev

I demand that Nick Leverton may or may not have written...

In article <4ECA1221B8%news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Darren Salt <news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I demand that Nick Leverton may or may not have written...
Could be right if the OP's been tracking etch via "upgrade" instead of
"dist-ugpade".

"upgrade" would cause any given package to be upgraded, given a newer
version, unless there is a dependency problem or it's marked as held. I'd
therefore expect udev 0.105.

"dist-upgrade" is less conservative and is best used for upgrading between
releases, e.g. sarge -> etch.

That's what I thought I was saying :)

Somewhere between brain and keyboard, things evidently became confused. It
looked to me like you'd got things backwards... :-)

But I don't know when udev's various Conflicts came in. Hotplug was an
early one but it used to be versioned, now it's absolute. Et cetera.

IIRC, hotplug needed modifications to work with udev, thus the versioned
conflict. Later, udev stopped needing hotplug, being able to do those things
itself, hence the unversioned conflict.

If you want to find out why APT hasn't dragged in the latest udev there's
one simple way: "apt-get -u -s dist-upgade". Apt-get won't drag in the
extra dependencies that aptitude does, and simulating the dist-upgrade will
stop it actually changing anything - so you can see what would be changed
in bringing you fully up to date.

I can't say for sure as I am on latest, but it's not uncommon for a
package to be kept behind if installing it would mean either installing
a new dependency or removing a new conflict.

I don't see that either of those would prevent upgrade.

I thought we both agreed above that that's what happens - what have I
mis-understood ?

Er, AFAICS, you were saying that the package should remain unupgraded to
avoid installing other packages or to leave a conflict in place...

A package won't be upgraded if it would require the upgrade, installation
or removal of some other package and doing so would break another
package. The difference with dist-upgrade is, AIUI, that it will happily
remove the newly-broken package too.

Apt-get and aptitude are different in this respect. Apt-get will, in
general, install what it can and complain if it can't. I've found it rare
in recent years that apt-get wanted to remove more than one or two
pacakges.

So will aptitude (in theory).

But aptitude has recently acquired a conflict resulution mechanism which is
quite happy to uninstall 90% of your system just to install one requirement
:-(

It asks, at least... it does tend not to upgrade if breakage would occur,
though. I suspect that this code still needs some improvement: give it
something moderately complicated and it can easily find hundreds of
solutions.

udev:
Installed: 0.098-X
Candidate: 0.105-3

Possibly. OTOH, 0.098-1 is the most recent version mentioned in 0.105-3's
NEWS.Debian...

That's expected, NEWS.deian only changes when there's a major change in the
package that you need to be warned about (config file layout, soname
versions, etc).

Yes. I mentioned that because of the assumption that 0.098 was in fact the
installed version, based on NEWS.debian...

[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| Kill all extremists!

The following statement is not true.
.

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