Re: MRSA - the superbug associated with lax standards of cleanliness in hospitals.
- From: "Pat Gardiner" <patgardiner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:31:16 -0000
"Tim Jones" <wildenfarm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:16:07 +0000, Osvald Hotz De Baar
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:46:05 GMT, wildenfarm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Tim
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 22:19:15 -0000, "Pat Gardiner"
Pat's Note: You have to realise the impact of pigs being identified as a
source of human MRSA in Britain.
It's hard to see how MRSA could jump from pigs to hospitals, without
some really serious lapses in basic hygiene by hospital staff.
Which is apparently endemic in our hospitals and not just from dirty
visitors either. My visits to various hospitals over the years do
nothing to instill confidence in hygiene standards.
Yes on paper everything is in place, but human nature being what it
Exactly and it's human nature that we need to adjust,
Your remark "It's hard to see how MRSA could jump from pigs to
hospital" is incredibly naive. Stunningly so. Pat has highlighted
quite clearly that screening needs to take place, this is now being
done in many hospitals. Although the screening of pig
farmers/associates is not specific and it should be.
He has yet to make a convincing argument that pigs should be a high
priority for screening IMO.
Much of Europe has been doing it for some years as a result of testing their
pigs and finding MRSA.
We should not be influenced by that without testing our own pigs of course.
What could be more reasonable than that?
I can't understand why we have not tested. Well, actually I can, but that is
a wider and much more disgraceful issue.
Let us keep this simple.
You don't need a pig running round A&E to catch MRSA from one.
So how are you suggesting it might happen?
I think Mr Webster was a few years ago to much amusement. He had to rely on
Mr Frith for collaberateion and sources.
Honestly the things the CLA lobbyists get up to!
You surprise me. Biosecurity in pig units was very lax 15 years ago. That is
like to consider 3 other species that are known carriers and that the
public have far more contact with. Dogs, cats and rabbits!
Nowhere near as risky as pigs where the breeding/rearing habits
promote MRSA and many other diseases.
Family pets are a far greater risk as the public have much higher
exposure to them. The few intensive pig units I saw over 15 years ago
had rigorous procedures to prevent disease either entering or leaving
the unit on staff. I have yet to see any evidence of this with family
not a criticism, but an observation. There seemed no need for razor wire
until animal rights would insist on filming dying and overcrowded pigs and
insisting it was cruelty. It wasn't, it was epidemics.
You might well be right about pets. I have not argued otherwise.
As a farmer I wash and change between handling animals and visiting
hospital, how many pet owners do the same thing?
How many farmers do the same thing? Remember soap and water doesn't
kill anything it just washes them off the hands. Antibac gels will
kill the bugs but should be used in conjunction with soap and water.
Every farmer I know, they tend to have more pride than large sectors
of the urban population.
Well, I don't think there is any way of proving that one way or the other
and I'm not sure it is relevant.
There is no substitute for proper hygiene and running hands under
water does nothing.
Good news here though
I suspect you can't see the wood for the trees ;)
You just cant resist it can you!!
It's a simple phrase used to suggest that you are overlooking
something. If you find it offensive I think you're a little
oversensitive to say the least.
Like I said if your mother gets it we'll see how funny you think it is
ANd you accuse others of bullying. It seems to be your side that
resorts to name calling and offensive phrases like this.
I'm not on any side. I have just refused Mr Webster's kind invitaion to join
forces with the Soil Association and tell ***Pete*** off on a regular basis
for swearing and behaving like an anarchist.
By the way, will you stop crossposting. I keep having to remember to check
in order to avoid being draw in
MRSA is everywhere and it needs to be dealt with where folks are
vulnerable, not just in animals at individual species level.
As with many of these diseases coming from a source of filthy farming
practice where animals are treated less than dirt itself, there needs
to be a change in lifestyle. It's no longer acceptable to provide food
fit for human consumption from filthy disease labs going under the
pretence of farming!
The sad thing is that even if you were correct proper cooking and good
kitchen hygiene would overcome the problem ;(
That works with some diseases, but is not very relevant to MRSA. Although I
have seen research somewhere that claims that MRSA does enter hospitals in
food, I think that can be disregarded as a major source. However handling
raw pork does pose an MRSA risk according to the Dutch.
Anyway, the first thing to do is to get the government to test for MRSA in
British pigs. We may be worrying about nothing and can ban imported meat on
the basis that it might carry MRSA into a clean country.
British pigs and pork are either worth a fortune or next to nothing.
Probably it is part and part. The farmers need to know, the public need to
The only ones not to want to know are the Politburo and Britain's bent
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