Re: The green house effect - one of Thatcher's lies?

Thus spake Oz <Oz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Oh No <NotI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
Thus spake Oz <Oz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Oh No <NotI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
At the moment all I feel I can safely say is that I haven't got a clue
which group is lying.

Having watched the programme quite carefully I would suggest:

1) Higher CO2 levels *lag* temperature rises, suggesting they are an
effect not a cause.

2) There was concerns about climate change then but mostly towards
another ice age at that time.

Despite the finding of cycles in solar activity, I suspect it is in many
respects fairly unpredictable in detail.

Be careful. Most work was done on the effects of orbital parameters that
result in differences in sunlight received. There are something like
10ky, 22ky and 120ky cycles. The differences in sunlight intensity are
small, a few percent as I remember.

The nucleation of clouds by high speed particle is different. Firstly
the effect could be very large indeed, after all a 20% increase in cloud
can mean a 20% decrease in sunlight reaching the surface. Secondly it is
related to solar activity. They claim that sunspots recharge the van
allen belts and deflect more cosmic (and solar) high energy particles
(due to the strong solar wind) so that cloud formation is reduced and so
temperatures are higher. Similarly with few sunspots, more particles and
more clouds.

They had a most impressive graph of solar wind activity and surface
temperature matching very well indeed.

It all makes perfect sense when I read about it, but I am too much a
matmo to accurately reproduce the details to order :-/

Note that the earths magnetic field has been waning for some time and is
likely to fail in the next century with the possibility of magnetic pole
reversal.

Can you explain the implications to the weather

5) The effect of mass CO2 and methane (mostly clathrates) emission due
to a persistently warmer planet was not mentioned. Remember the oceans
are almost entirely at 4C except at the surface. This is due to the last
ice age but if this starts to warm .....

Seems unlikely that it would. 4C is maximum density for water. Both
cooler and warmer water rise.


Yes, but it can (and will) still warm up.
This will take a while though, it has HUGE thermal inertia AND its still
being chilled by polar ice.

Isn't it more likely the pattern of solar activity changes before it
does.


6) Claimed was extended periods of warmer weather (the middle ages) and
colder periods (the maunder minimum) have happened in the recent past.
Claimed levels of CO2 were up to 10x present levels.

significant, if true.

Sorry, I was unclear. The 10x levels were in the geologic past.

iirc it's known that the Earth formed with a much higher CO2 atmosphere
than today. This was reduced by the development of life.


Regards

--
Charles Francis
moderator sci.physics.foundations.
substitute charles for NotI to email

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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