Re: physics for ex-farmers

Oh No <notI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes

Oz wrote:

Just taken a skim at this paper, did you know they found an ANNUAL term
in the anomaly?

P26.

Anomaly (not significant) of -+2E-8 over 200 days.

Seems a tad too large for earth orbit but ....


The main Anderson paper? Yes, Anderson reckons it is small enough to be
a modelling error. I think he is right. Much smaller than I was looking
for the illusory part of Earth orbit.

Eh? Far too big, surely? Knocking on for 10% for only 1AU in radius vs
the lots and lots (light-hours) of expanding space between pioneer and
ourselves.

Oh, but hang on. Different effects may be involved. Mond is an angular
separation effect but IIRC this is only 1/32th hubble, so even smaller.
NB Later they give it as 1.6E-8 but it could be less.

Thing is though, I do have two different motions for light. When the
path of a light ray can be plotted in a single reference frame,
geodesic motion as in general relativity.

Eh? Is this reference frame flat? I think not in general.

When the initial and final
states in quantum theory cannot be described in a single reference
frame and a different one must be used for each ahd the only
communication from one to the other is the light itself, and no path
can be plotted in a reference frame, the teleconnection law applies.

This doesn't make sense. The limits must surely be:

1) Lightbeam: entirely Franciscan.

2) Massive body path in limit as v->0 = relativistic = newtonian.

The internal effective frame of the solar system is type (2) since we
have had centuries to generate the structure of the physical frame and
franciscan corrections are very small *for traversals of light*. Even
pioneer only shows hints of franciscan light effects despite hugely
accurate equipment.

Note that Anderson seem to suspect that pioneer is actually NOT at the
position suggested by the doppler route, but is following an inertial
path.

I think this is what is going on in the Pioneer motion, and that the
effect really is "switched on" when the path leaves the inner solar
system just as it was observed.

By a three horned deity carrying a basket of magnolias, I expect... PAH!

Not sure exactly why that is by Saturn
in particular,

Because thats when the laws of physics have their saturnalia
and go on holiday?

but I think it is because Pioneer left an elliptical
orbit in which it can be used as reference matter, to *define* part of
the solar system reference frame, and entering a hyperbolic orbit, in
which it cannot.

Frankly I think this is bollox. I can perfectly well describe the solar
system using elliptical, parabolic or hyperbolic orbits. With clocks and
internal instrumentation I can send stuff back (data, like) and with
internal thrusters even convert to other orbits.

The orbits are actually newtonian, only the redshift has this previously
unmodelled extra term. Its very very small within the solar system and
easily swamped by other effects until you are in the wild empty spaces
far from the sun, the gas giants and the solar wind is attenuated. Even
then the major correction term is for the radiation pressure produced by
the occasional use of the ship's transmitter (10% in the wrong
direction!).

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.



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