Re: So what exactly do scientists know about global warming?

In message <6yNh04PkGi2DFwiH@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Oz <Oz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
John Beardmore <wookie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes

The reality seems to be that even well used veg oil requires little treatment to
work perfectly well in engines, and the use of straight veg oil (SVO) or used
veg oil (UVO) certainly offer alternative to transesterification which
incorporates fossil methanol into the fuel molecules as well as requiring
chemical inputs, raising a waste disposal issue, and throwing away the glycerol
part of the molecule which is better off in the fuel. 

You will have noted other posts from me saying just this.
However it WILL wax out in even modestly cold weather.

Much of the work bio-power have done deals with these issues. Pure SVO has this problem, but there is a range of different molecular weight fats, and part of their process involves fractionating them and / or adding co-solvents to keep viscosity sensible over a wider temperature range, tweak cetane value etc. This gives quite a bit of scope to produce summer and winter automotive fuels, and the heavier S100 fuel for stationary engines etc.


because of gumming

In practice this doesn't seem to be a problem. 

I suspect it will depend on whether you use a mix with diesel or diesel
from time to time.

Most people end up using a mix and it can't do any harm. That said, engines run on the bio-power fuel alone are said to be very clean if you do have occasion to strip them down.


Who told you this ?
Esso ?


It was 'general knowledge' when this was being discussed in the agpress
some (many) years ago.

Yes - I think it was often raised in the early days of biofuel production too, some books seem quite preoccupied with is but in practice doesn't seem to be a problem, even with the grimmest of fat sources. Like hospitals. Crown immunity... Ho hummm...


This seems perfectly reasonable since most veg
products contain gums and I would be very surprised if rapeseed did not
contain some (if not quite a bit) oil-soluble gums.


I'm sure it does.


Bear in mind that
injectors (and indeed injector pumps) contain items with very tight
tolerances and some operate at quite high temperature. Vegetable
components often break down or polymerise at elevated temperatures (and
pressures).

Yes - and some pumps do work better than others. Phil Bradshaw can no doubt tell you far more about this than I can, but viscosity and lubricity all have a part to play in this.


"Not really advisable to incorporate
raw (let alone contaminated) veg oil into diesel engines", it might be smarter
to effect some real positive change by supporting the people who are bringing it
about rather than <pun>knocking</pun> them. 

I would certainly not suggest that anyone used anything in a diesel
engine not covered by the manufacturer's warranty.

Well, nor would I, but there are plenty of bio-power fuel users seem to, and I gather that some vehicles like Mercs that are well engineered have warranties cover triglyceride fuels. This whole business is much better developed in Europe, especially Germany, though there are fears that the new coalition will do their industry harm...


If damage (likely to
be $$$ for a diesel) was done I wouldn't want to compensate them and I
would be uncomfortable if I were responsible for them losing $$$.

How long have you been using used veg oil in your car?

We've used in three vehicles. Briefly in a small Ford van which seemed OK, but largely ran on Derv, and in an Iveco 7,500 kg truck. That didn't seem to like it at high concentrations, at least in winter, but those were pretty pure SVO. At the moment I'm running a much more modern Iveco van (12 months old) on the bio-power fuel when I can get it. This one seems to run on it just fine, though it seldom gets near 100% bio-fuel for long because it gets diluted with standard diesel.

Now that there is a bio-power fuel maker nearer to us, I'm giving serious thought to getting them to drop off an IBC from time to time, and at that point I'll let you know how it goes with 100% triglyceride.

Obviously within the bio-power network, most people use their own fuel most of the time. Outside bio-power, there is the 'SVO community' who seem to be using a rougher fuel, but with engine modification, heated oil filters, wider fuel lines etc. Their cars also seem to work really well, and will still burn conventional derv.

Jackie Carpenter who runs Energy21 also has a small Ford van running on SVO. Think she's been using it where possible for about three to four years without problem, and hers is the roughest fuel I've seen, but seems to work OK. Even if it goes into the tank waxing slightly, it seems to run OK, perhaps melting in the heated filter.

On the other hand, some merc engines will suck semi solid duck fat and run fine on that. Interestingly, I gather that vehicle fuels that are solid above room temperature do not attract fuel duty, though check that before you get your shovel.


Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: So what exactly do scientists know about global warming?
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